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Interesting perspective on the Prem from a Hammers board.

JVLJVL
edited August 2010 in Other Football and Sports
Unusually reasoned!

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Six days into the Premier League season and you could be forgiven for thinking that it was the end of the season as far as the top four standings were concerned.

In fact you could be mistaken for thinking that bar the occasional swap around within that top four, that is how they will remain throughout the season. The Premier League might be attracting the top players but is this the beginning of the demise of the Premier League as a competitive league for most of the clubs and could it be the start of a downturn in appeal for fans of the majority of the other teams that seem to merely make up the numbers outside of that top four?

The current league standings are Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United, Manchester City. Three teams who have regularly raked in the money from the Champions League and one club with Multi-millionaire investors. So that's this seasons Champions League placings sorted. The usual suspects will be placed outside of the top four battling for entry to the Europa League, namely Liverpool (out of the top 4 because of financial difficulties), Tottenham, and maybe Everton and Aston Villa.

So what is there left for the other 12 teams to fight for? Mid-table obscurity or simply a yearly battle against relegation and possible financial oblivion? Add to this the cost of tickets, somewhere between £35-£80+ , then the cost of transport and fuel and the uselessness of public transport and on top of that you can add the increasing cost of television subscriptions for both Sky and ESPN.
It's seriously looking like that most unappealing of leagues, the Scottish Premier League but doubled in size and just as predictable and it doesn't look like ever changing.

Of course you can then add to that the negative effect of England's dismal display in the World Cup,
and what an effect that will have. The simple reality that because of the massive influx of foreign players, English players have been proven to be less skilled and less passionate. A further by-product of this is the lack of identity both to a clubs' players with the clubs locality and fans, but also on a national level, the England players were shown up for what they are. Overpaid and under-skilled, which is why so few play abroad and there is no great demand for them.

Given these negative factors, could fans who have followed the bottom 12 (as I will now call them) for years on end, be forgiven for taking less of an interest in their team? What is there to look forward to? The results from the top 4 have already suggested that anything other than 6 points against the bottom 12 is highly unlikely, what with the 6-0 drubbings Chelsea and Arsenal have already dished out. So that's 24 points a season each of the bottom 12 can write off. The likelihood of a European place is minimal.

All West Ham fans have been through the ups and downs of relegation and promotion, good seasons and bad seasons and we take it on the chin and as part of the appeal of supporting the club. But once it gets to the point that if you are not in the Premier League there is the possibility of the club no longer existing and the best we can achieve will be mid-table obscurity, we could be forgiven for no longer wanting to invest the money we have done in the past. Particularly during the current hard times of the recession.

In the future the club could be moving into the Olympic Stadium. More out of necessity in order to survive rather than any actual progress as a club. We are currently seeing every player brought into the club be a foreign national and along with the current squad, whether foreign or English, being paid monthly or even weekly salaries that most of us will be lucky to earn in a year. And for what? To try and stay in the league. What is there for fans to identify with?

Speaking of lower leagues. They are beginning to look a lot more appealing. They are far more competitive, as Blackpool showed last season, they are a reasonable cost to support, there is terraces, singing, more likelihood of being able to see both English players and local players who you can identify with. The only things lacking are a drop in skill (although sometimes that is questionable) and less likelihood of being able to watch your game live on TV. But pick a local club and you can watch them live regularly and almost be assured to get a ticket without having to pay for a membership scheme.

There is a reason beyond the size of a teams’ location in Scotland as to why the attendance figures for the likes of Motherwell, St Mirren, Dundee United and Kilmarnock range between 5-7,000. It is because there is so little to look forward to and there hasn't been for a couple of decades at least and once again it is largely to do with the grip of the top two over the Champions League money. The SPL is such an obvious example to the Premier League chiefs of how a league becomes unappealing.

Unless action is taken fast in order to make the Premier League a level playing field for all of the teams financially and for its cost to come down for the fans, then many fans may well walk away from it or at least take much less of a genuine interest. The number of teams which have already narrowly avoided going out of existence by dropping out of the Premier League is already large. Leeds, Portsmouth, Southampton to name a few. Those are the warning signs and how long will it be before we see 3 teams relegated because all 3 have had points deducted because of being forced into administration?

Is the appeal of football to watch a competitive game being played and the possibility of success at something during a season or is it to be concerned with clubs finances, players wages, fear of your club going out of business and dodgy deals being done in the transfer market and the petulance and image of players? Players appearing on television seems to be more important to them than what they do on the pitch.

There is a small but increasing possibility that the league may implode from its own inability to support itself because of its increasing lack of appeal.

Comments

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    I can't remember who it was but a Charlton Director wrote a whole report on how the model of the Premier league was doomed about 7 years ago, submitted it to the Premier league, only to be ignored.
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    top notch article that I totally agree with
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    [cite]Posted By: Telnotinoz[/cite]top notch article that I totally agree with

    Yep me too.
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    As in most business's these days the people at the top are only interested in the money they can make today.

    F*** tomorrow.
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    Nothing in there that I disagree with. However, with the greatest of respect to the writer of the piece, I've seen articles almost identical to this every season since about 2001. It hasn't happened yet, and the longer imbeciles are willing to for out fifty quid a match to watch the premier leagie's 'product', and even greater numbers of imbeciles are willing to for out 30 quid a month to watch it from the comfort of their armchairs, nothing will change.
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    Interesting article and I have to say I think the Premiership is not very interesting when the top 4 or even 6 can be predicted with almost absolute certainty before the season even starts. Is the fact that Soccer AM has been cut by an hour a sign that footie is going down in the popularity stakes?
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    I went to the Charity Shield (or whatever its called now) this year and have never been so bored at a football match. Neither set of (supposedly) supporters singing, I was with a kids football team and we even managed a little burst of bubbles without any response from anyone. The life is dripping out of the top league, Its corperate crap now and not many real fans left. By the way i was there as a freebie and there were about 200 there from other kids teams, none of which had an passion for either team.
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    Its true but if we got up there we would again have 75% of games sold out so it will remain the same for years to come. Take Blackpool didn't sell out the away end in their semi final with Forest yet sold out Arsenal knowing it was not going to be good and 6-0 wasn't. Its sad but true
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    Feel very strongly about this. It is sad the way the game has gone at the top level often to the extreme detriment of clubs outside of the big boys.

    What has happened to football in this country since the inception of the premiership is the equivalent to Bob Dylan and Keith Moon turning up for X factor auditions or Che Guevara popping up in the Jungle alongside Ant and Dec, in terms of how the soul has been sucked out of the game.
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    [cite]Posted By: cafcinperth[/cite]Take Blackpool didn't sell out the away end in their semi final with Forest yet sold out Arsenal knowing it was not going to be good and 6-0 wasn't. Its sad but true

    a lot of blackpool fans live in london...
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    They got up at 5am and left Blackpool in a fleet of coaches, excited and thinking they could nick a point.
    On MotD, there was film/documentary of their day trip to the Emirates.
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    Derby fans were absolutely supurb in 2007/2008, despite having a complete nightmere of a season. Every game they were there to support their team even though it was a hopeless case and I am sure Blackpool will be no different.
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    [cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]Nothing in there that I disagree with. However, with the greatest of respect to the writer of the piece, I've seen articles almost identical to this every season since about 2001. It hasn't happened yet, and the longer imbeciles are willing to for out fifty quid a match to watch the premier leagie's 'product', and even greater numbers of imbeciles are willing to for out 30 quid a month to watch it from the comfort of their armchairs, nothing will change.

    You're not wrong Leroy, but it has been getting worse. Portsmouth and Hull are both in real trouble and would have been even if they'd stayed up. Newcastle, with gates of nearly 50,000, have had to dramatically cut back on spending. West Ham are one of a number of clubs that have running costs, due to debt levels, that are becoming unsustainable with the Premier League money, never mind relegation.

    I do think these clubs will manage to hobble along, but football is much closer to disaster than it has ever been and a lot closer than in 2001.

    Strange thing is, none of the Wedt Ham fans were saying this when the biscuit man breezed in promising Champions League football. Just like the Man City fans aren't now, but they would if their current owner left the club and took his money with him leaving massive running costs behind.

    What is more likely, in my view, is that over time clubs will fall out of the Premier League and then implode while they are replaced by other teams. The Premier League will survive. Leeds were regulars in the Chamions League but as soon as they fell away they were replaced. Liverpool have seen the same - they may well have a similar path to tread as Leeds have had, who knows?

    When we were relegated as the PL money went through the roof some said it was the worst time to be relegated. Maybe it was actually just in time!
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    edited August 2010
    Mostly fair article, but I am always conscious that fans only seem to come up with this stuff when it is their team in dire straits. I doubt there are many Tottenham fans writing articles about how teams can never break into the top 4.

    In terms of competitiveness the league isn't in great shape, but in all honesty its probably been worse in the past than it is now. I remember when there was only a 'top 2' of Arsenal and Manchester United for quite a few years. This then became a top 4 when Liverpool started to genuinely threaten the top of the table, and Chelsea actually won it several times. Last season there was a genuine race for 4th place as perennial underachievers like Villa and Spurs started to realise their potential and Man City had the millions pumped into them.

    Whether the premiership over its whole period has been a bad thing (and I would agree it has) is separate to whether right now is particularly bad for anti-competitiveness, and I would say it isn't. And the future is far from sown up. What happens when United's debt continues to strangle them, and when Ferguson leaves? What happens when Abramovich inevitably leaves Chelsea? Once again I agree it's hardly the most balanced league, but to compare it to likes of the SPL is the sort of hyperbole you'd only expect from someone who's own team seem to have little hope.

    Oh I've also heard many times that the Sky money means no one could 'do a Charlton anymore', but that's exactly what Stoke seem to have done and they're now pretty well established.
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    edited August 2010
    I've always assumed that there will be European League eventually. The top few could then go off and do their thing and the English Premier League would return to being a much more competitive league.

    What I don't know is if the very same fans of the bottom 12 who complain about one-sided games would be willing to shell out to see games against teams like themselves with no visits from the likes of MU, Chelsea etc. The goal would still be to get promoted to the European League (with a swift return back) unless, of course, the elite decided to lock the door on the European League in some way.

    Fans still live the dream of beating the elite. I know when Charlton were in the Premiership, I looked forward to the big games more than any others only to be disappointed more often than not by about 3.15. It's no coincidence that fans on this website still remember the win at Arsenal, the 4-2 defeat of Chelsea at The Valley, Lisbie's hat trick v Liverpool etc.

    I am not sure there is a solution to it all until a brave decision is made and salary caps of some sort are in place. As things stand the 6-0 wins will become more common and the only changes will be when there is a huge amount of money injected into a club (like Man City) or if and when Abramovich decides to walk away from Chelsea.
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    The English Premier League is now a global brand name. It has become so through excellent marketing plus increasing access to games through TV and the internet. The money paid by TV companies worldwide is phenomenal and just continues to increase.

    Here in Thailand every game is shown live. Three years ago with the feed from ESPN/Star it was just selected games. TV stations in different countries are now negotiating their own deals with the EPL, whereas previously in Asia, for example, ESPN/Star had exclusive rights for Asia and sold their package to cable and satellite stations within the region.

    Basically, it doesn't matter who is making up the bottom twelve or so of the League as 99% of overseas viewers are only interested in those top four clubs (that's Liverpool rather than Man City, by the way).

    The real supporters are in England and they go to watch the games week after week. But with such a huge worldwide following, how much do they matter to the EPL? Provided those top four continue to prosper then so will the Premier League. If a lower club goes under, then there's another to replace it.

    Sad but it's just business. Despite that I would love to see CAFC back there one day.
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    edited August 2010
    [cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite] and even greater numbers of imbeciles are willing to for out 30 quid a month to watch it from the comfort of their armchairs, nothing will change.

    leroy, am i really an imbecile for subscribing to sky sports.
    i'm also a cricket fan and it would've cost me virtually the price of my cafc season ticket to watch 3 days of the lords test.
    christ know what it'd cost to go to an england cricket away series, something that sky were the first to broadcast live in the early 90's.
    also enjoy the ryder cup, again something only sky have ever broadcast the whole event live.
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    Well said KHA, imagine if we had had a season of that silly money. I can't imagine how much Dowie /Pardew would have spent in trying to keep us up.
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    http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/?CommentID=758306

    My view on it.

    Unfortunately Murdoch now runs the game in this country along with most other things but until gates and subscribing figures start tumbling then nothing will change. You could argue however that without Sky's money, the Valley wouldn't be the fantastic stadium it is now and realistically we never had a chance of winning bugger all. The fact that only about 6 or 7 clubs now have a chance of winning anything is probably the major change plus the fact that once you're geared up for the prem, if you fall out of it, you're knackered.
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    This debate has been going on for sometime and as you say only a drop in gate and subscribing would change things. Is this the season where things start to change though. Have we started to see the thin edge of the wedge, some chairman notably Wigans chairman Dave Whelan has voicced his concern about gates at the DW.
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    I totally agree with this post, and was one of those who were not sorry to see us drop out of the Premier League because I felt we were unable to compete and had nothing to look forward to up there. if I had known though how bad thngs would get I think I might have felt differently. A salary cap and transfer fee cap is desperately needed to bring football back to what it was and should be, but of course those who can make that decision won't because they only care about the business side of things, not the sport side. And I can't see the players supporting such a move anyway.
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    Think Wigan are a bit of a one off. Its the gates in league 1 and the championship that amaze me. in the early 80's when i first started going regularly, if a team got gates of 6000 in the old second division (now championship), they were looked at as being decent. most got about 4500 with the odd exception if a big boy had dropped out of the top flight. Football, based on attendances has never been so popular in my lifetime, which is strange because we are all moaning about whgat's going on, and rightly so.
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    Domestic League football was quite in the doldrums during the 80s, if I remember - even in the top flight First Division, apart from Liverpool, and a very few others.

    Man Utd and Arsenal were often average mid-table - their glory was often the cups.
    Liverpool ruled the roost, Everton had a couple of storming seasons, and Forest and Villa were the surprise packages.

    And teams like Charlton, Wimbledon, Luton and Oxford tried their luck as underdogs.

    Chelsea were nowhere, mainly in the 2nd division getting thrashed by Charlton 4-0 and 5-2 (couldn't resist) - and even in the top flight, generously allowing Charlton to stay up, while they themselves couldn't win a playoff game against a 2nd division side.


    I believe the generally higher attendances today in the League, owes to two main facts:

    1) The blanket coverage of televised Prem League football, placing the game firmly in the public eye creating huge interest

    2) The cost of Prem League tickets and sometimes their unavailability

    It's one thing for kids and plastic fans to identify with 'Sky 4' clubs, despite rarely if ever attending live games ...... but for true supporters who love to attend matches and feel actively part of their club, you can't beat the atmosphere and sense of anticipation of actually being in the ground.

    I believe many Football League clubs have benefited with higher attendances and greater actual supporter involvement as a result. It's how football traditionally always used to be - and keeps these smaller clubs in the community today.
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    The SPL is where the EPL will be in 10 years time, it makes me laugh when people call it a pub/joke league without noticing the growing similarities.
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    Of course, nothing excites the Premier League more than declaring itself to be brilliant, especially when dumb journalists take Scudamore at his every word.

    Our biggest problem in the Premier League was having to run harder just to keep up with the rich boys. Now even doing that is beyond many clubs' reach.

    Who knows, maybe some day Fulham will go bust (please, let them) and people will wake up to this.
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    The main difference between the SPL and EPL is the TV money. I lived in Scotland and watched SPL every week, Rangers and Celtic have as good support as any English or world team but lack the TV money.

    I remember reading a newspaper article that said more people per head of population watch live football in Scotland than do in England!
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    edited August 2010
    [quote][cite]Posted By: D_F_T[/cite]The main difference between the SPL and EPL is the TV money. I lived in Scotland and watched SPL every week, Rangers and Celtic have as good support as any English or world team but lack the TV money.

    I remember reading a newspaper article that said more people per head of population watch live football in Scotland than do in England![/quote]

    Theres not just the TV money that is the main difference.

    The support in England for the bigger clubs is better than Celtic or Rangers, Spurs,Chelsea,Arsenal,Villa,Utd,City,Everton,Liverpool and even Newcastle are all bigger and better supported than either Celtic or Rangers.
    And then we have many many clubs with support equal to Celtic & Rangers.
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    edited August 2010
    agree wholeheartedly and i particularly like the pointer to the SPL as an example of what can happen. it's been there staring us in the face for a long time but we chose to ignore it!
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