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Pay Rises or Not as the Case may Be.....

Had my first Pay Review in over 20 months yesterday. Could not beleive what I was hearing, first of all I am a valued member of the team, we as a company (Only Five Employees) got our production up over 25% last year all great news I am sure you'll agree. Then I was informed 'I am increasing your pay by 4%' which does not sound too bad you'd think, however they are removing sorry changing how I get commission so basically means I'll be earning the same this year as I did last year, so in other words this means no pay rise in three years. Worst thing about it is in the meeting I sat there & took it & did not complain once.

I am now glad that I went to an Agency up town the other week to try to sort myself a new job back in the City, I feel like I have been kicked in the teeth.
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    In the teeth? More like the bollocks!
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    none in 3 years, thats a joke mate
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    P, stay calm and keep your work up to it's current level. You can either go back to your boss and tell her/him how you feel with a good business case for why you should have a pay rise. Don't make any threats or lose your temper. Just play on being disappointed.

    Meanwhile or instead when you have a firm offer for another job that you'd be happy to take go back to your boss (book a meeting don't do it ad hoc) and in a very non-confrontational way say "I wasn't looking for another job but the agency offered me this and as I was unhappy about the pay rise so I went for an interview and they are offering me more etc" If they want you they might give you a rise but have a figure in your head before you go into the meeting. Don't let them soft soap you.
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    It's good to move on, I stuck at my place for 6 years got nominal payrises it ground me down but stuck it out as i like the people... final made the decision to cut my losses, best thing i did, smaller company, much bigger role and a salary i'd never have got if i'd stayed in 10 years at the old place.

    Companies will f*ck you over at a drop of the hat, you have to look after no 1.
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    TBH I feel calm, just massively dis-appointed. Quite like my job paticularly the fact that I can drive there & back in 20 mins each morning & evening. Working back up town commuting from Sittingbourne is gonna lose me around 4 hours a day. Fact of the matter is I want my own house & will never be able to do it on the wages I am on here, I can earn an extra £6-7k working in the city, something that I will never even get close to being offered here. Just feel a bit brassed off at the moment.
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    if i was you one day next week i'd say to the boss can we go out for a beer at lunch or something, get away from the work environment. Have a beer, then say to him honestly and frankly, you're a bit miffed, you've been here three years and not had a pay rise, this new thing is not really a pay rise, and to be honest you feel your worthy of a bit more reward than what you've had in the past three years. Put him on the spot, in a more relaxed environment, and just ask him to be honest with you.

    It can go two ways in a small office, and unfortunately you seem to be getting the down side...
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    edited January 2007
    [cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]Had my first Pay Review in over 20 months yesterday. Could not beleive what I was hearing, first of all I am a valued member of the team, we as a company (Only Five Employees) got our production up over 25% last year all great news I am sure you'll agree. Then I was informed 'I am increasing your pay by 4%' which does not sound too bad you'd think, however they are removing sorry changing how I get commission so basically means I'll be earning the same this year as I did last year, so in other words this means no pay rise in three years. Worst thing about it is in the meeting I sat there & took it & did not complain once.

    I am now glad that I went to an Agency up town the other week to try to sort myself a new job back in the City, I feel like I have been kicked in the teeth.

    This is probably stating the obvious but if you are planning on commuting from Kent any City job will have to pay you £3,000 to £4,000 more gross just for you to take home what you are taking home at the moment. You will also have all the hassle of our Third World rail system and or the roads being dug up with average speed cameras to increase journey times.

    Are or were others on commission? If so it might be worth you all trying to put up a united front to keep the old commission arrangements.
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    Im still waiting for my 3k payrise. Not enough people were at the MCM last week so it couldnt be agreed. I hate waiting, I had better get it back dated!
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    [cite]Posted By: T[/cite]It's good to move on, I stuck at my place for 6 years got nominal payrises it ground me down but stuck it out as i like the people... final made the decision to cut my losses, best thing i did, smaller company, much bigger role and a salary i'd never have got if i'd stayed in 10 years at the old place.

    Companies will f*ck you over at a drop of the hat, you have to look after no 1.

    T, this is exactly what my situaltion was, 6 years in one (massive) firm, turn up always, no sickies, stay loyal, and they still foook you over! So i left for a smaller company a year and a half ago and i am happy now! Better position, better money nearer home and no shifts! Appy days.

    Ketters, look for another job, and foook them over by leaving.
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    Cheers guys, thanks for the ideas, but have already decided as soon as I get a job offer up town I am gone. Think yesterday has justified that decision. Have done the commuting thing before for 17 years, happy to do it again if it means I can earn proper wages again.
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    still think you should give them the change to offer you more. If they don't you know you made the right decision. Ifthey do you can still tell them where to stick it or even better say "thanks, but no thanks"
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    Surely Henry if they would seriously want me to stay ,they would make me an offer when I tell them I have got another job without me having to ask them? To be honest my so called rise equated to £700, can you seriously see them matching £6 or £7k increase......no I don't either.
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    Ketman, are you sales, can you demonstrate your individual value?
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    edited January 2007
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    Carling, do your staff benefit from the expansion (profit share, share scheme, etc?) other than possibly improving job prospects? If not shouldn't those costs be shouldered by the investors? Don't you risk losing people otherwise?
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    [cite]Posted By: carlingaddick[/cite]just think more work should equal more bonuses & payrises

    to be fair tho carling, what else would us plebs think! I dont go to work for the love of it, i go to earn, and everything else goes up, so why not our wages! You cant of been the boss the whole time so you must be able to see it from employee point of view!

    Having said that tho, i can see where you are coming from too, but where does it end, how long will people have to wait for a pay rise, my boss have been giving a 5 year plan thing, sayin that there will be more cash available over the longer period of time, but i bet he said that 5 years ago too, and people still on similar money!

    Its a tough world for the employee!
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    I never had you down as tight Carling.
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    more work should mean more pay surely?
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    Carling,

    Don''t get me wrong, it is at the end of the day a business run & owned by two partners with a support staff of three. Thing is they have been able to write more business due to the support staff. So when you increase productivity by 25% I am not expecting a 25% rise by any stretch of the imagination. I know we had a one off investment in IT OVER year ago of £15k other than that overheads have been the same. I was just not expecting to be given £700 & told it's a pay rise, but then have my bonus/commision changed which effectively takes the £700 back. No rise then in what is effect 3 years. I am sorry but right now I cannot & do not even want to see it from Bosses perspective because from where I sit yesterday was a cheap shot & if I could walk into another job tomorrow I would not have even bothered coming into work today.
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    edited January 2007
    i've only got significant pay rises when i've made veiled threats to leave. as henry said do it in a non-confrontational way but let them know that you'll be very useful elsewhere for more money and you've got no qualms about looking elsewhere. your bosses will take you for granted otherwise, as is the case in most companies.
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    Ketman
    Has your commission pay now been put into your basic...and thus guaranteed? If so that does remove a degree of uncertainty especially if you don't have such a good year next year. At the same time though it removes a valuable incentive to perform to a higher level. Take HI's advice, stay positive and look around you may just find you are more marketable than you think and use this as a lever to encorage your current bosses to reconsider.

    I set up a new small business last year and at that time paid a slightly higher market rate to recruit good people (and they were aware of that fact), vital to a small company and one of my management requirements has always been to surround yourself with the best, the best 4 will do the work of three and that may be another angle you can take. I employ 7 people and would not like to lose any of them
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    edited January 2007
    Carling, that's all far enough but you have to tell the staff "WIIFM" (what's in it for me?") as we say in the business. If they can see some long term gain that involves them then they may be OK but you have to tell them and preferably have being telling them all year.

    Ketman/Carlsberg, communication is all about seeing it from the other persons point of view even if you don' t agree with it.

    PS business coaching available (04 MCS will give me a reference) at £700 per day plus free Charlton gossip
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    £700 per day? well that's my Pay Rise gone then LOL
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    I do mate's rates ;-)
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    On the whole we live in and around the most expensive city on the planet yet don't get pay rates that reflect that. I am miffed full stop.

    I did the treasury personal rate of inflation thing (uk stats online) this week, and I have had about 20% inflation over the last 3 years and about 7.5% increase in pay. While the place I live gets more and more expensive.

    Ketman man you are being ripped off! so am I...

    The state of education in the Borough of Greenwich I am either going to have to move or send my children to private (or schools in Bexley) so they get a vaguely reasonable education and I am not sure the Bexley plan will work.

    F this I am off to Oz.
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    [cite]Posted By: pickwick[/cite]On the whole we live in and around the most expensive city on the planet yet don't get pay rates that reflect that. I am miffed full stop.

    I did the treasury personal rate of inflation thing (uk stats online) this week, and I have had about 20% inflation over the last 3 years and about 7.5% increase in pay. While the place I live gets more and more expensive.

    Ketman man you are being ripped off! so am I...

    The state of education in the Borough of Greenwich I am either going to have to move or send my children to private (or schools in Bexley) so they get a vaguely reasonable education and I am not sure the Bexley plan will work.

    F this I am off to Oz.

    One of the main reasons I relocated to the Medway Towns over 20 years ago now was the state of the schools in SE London. Down here they still have grammar schools and even the high schools aren't too bad. Add to that the fact that you get "more house" for what you can afford it makes sense. The one downside is the commuting. If you can hack that though the quality of life for a family is far better than SE London. In the summer I can take them to the coast in 20 minutes to half an hour for example and I'm in open countyside in five minutes.
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    ketman
    i went for my manager's job and didn't get it, when everyone including my manager that was vacating his post thought i had it nailed on. it went to a newer less experienced member of staff (who wears low tops). a week later i got a better job & better money. walked into the department managers office and told him. he asked me to reconsider. he even stopped me whilst having a slash in the gents. asked me outright if i would have stayed if i had been offered the job. i said yes and the look on his face was a picture. don't get taken for granted. if you're a good worker they should try harder to keep you.

    remember we work to live, we don't live to work
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    remember we work to live, we don't live to work


    Sage advice, you might like your job but life is too short to work where you are unhappy.

    In my experience many companies get their recruitment policies and remuneration system totally arse about face. They'll promote the unhappy and even poor workers thinking that the added responsibility/pay rises will keep them at the company while those who are quiet, get on with their job etc, often get shafted because the management know they won't make a fuss and because they dare not move someone who is doing a good job in case that person can't be replaced. A company I worked for in the early '90s hit financial trouble, it held on but had a pay freeze for a two years. Quite a few valuable members of staff left in that time and were replaced by inexperienced people but at higher wages than those who left - what was the point of that?

    Look at this as an opportunity... you now know what your current employers will pay, be patient, look elsewhere, see what the interest is for you and then when offered something you can either hand your notice in or use the new job offer to re-negotiate a better pay rise as you see fit.

    Good luck.
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    I agree i was at a company for over 20 years,best thing i ever did was going to a competitor!opened a new world to me,dont be afraid to make the change,and i am not going to ever let a employer hold me back again!i have found that the most important thing is negotiation skills
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    Ps i would relocate to Dubai any day to get out of this country!hate the fact i have come to this conclusion!but i know for me and my loved ones this would make so much seanse,however i would keep my season ticket going,and would attend every game i could!
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