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Large Addick's "lack of a decent manager".....

edited April 2010 in General Charlton
and others who have trotted a similar line throughout this season.

Can you please tell me definatively what makes a good manager and what makes a bad one ?

And does it have to be a snap reading at a certain point in time ?

Because i'm sure twelve months ago, Simon Grayson , Gary Johnson, Darren Ferguson and Tony Mowbray were widely accepted on here and elsewhere as being excellent managers. Three have been sacked, and the other is doing his best to cock-up the biggest shoe-in promotion for ages.

Ian Holloway was a joke figure who still couldn't get a job after his disasterous spell at Leicester the previous season, yet has now done a brilliant job with Blackpool.

Jim Gannon was seen as a good manager, yet is out of work again after just 2 months at Peterborough.

Phil Brown was seen as doing a great job getting Hull into the prem and keeping them there, yet is now the new Holloway joke figure.

Owen Coyle was being seen as the new up and comer, and now looks average at Bolton. As was Brendan (why didn't we appoint him) Rodgers, who after a decent spell with Watford saw Reading go all wrong and was sacked within a few months.

Don't forget good old Martin (at least he'll get the players playing with a bit of passion) Allen, sacked at Cheltenham.

Steve TIlson has just led Southend to relegation, Geraint Williams nearly did with Orient and was sacked, and Peter Taylor set Wycombe on the way to nowhere and was promptly fired. While no one in football for some reason has wanted to touch Martin Ling.

And remember everyone raving about what a job Simon Davey was doing at Barnsley ? Sacked.

Alan Irvine was meant to be doing brilliant things with Preston, yet is now set to take Sheff W down.

All managers that have attracted favourite support at various times in the past on here.

So are all the above now 'bad managers' having only just a short while ago been 'decent managers' ?
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Comments

  • There's only two Alan Irvines! Two Alan Irvines!
  • Sheffield Wednesday - 2 consecutive relegations....
  • [cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]There's only two Alan Irvines! Two Alan Irvines!

    Not any more !

    though i'll happily chuck Paul (we should get him down here) Ince into the mix
  • I agree with your drift, but some people can't resist the grass is greener syndrome. Especially after such a good time with Curbs.

    I well remember telling my son, who was 12 at the time, that he should cherish our time in the PL as these are our golden years and might not last.
  • edited April 2010
    well, my two suggestions seem to have had more than decent seasons, Sean O'Driscoll and Nigel Adkins. I can't remember supporting too many of the above either.

    In my opinion, Parky hasn't been good enough for various reasons that have been covered far many times on here than I care to remember.
  • Could be an interesting thread. I've made this point before, Paul Ince was one of the 'next big managers'. Pardew, Parky and Dowie were all 'very promising managers' not long ago. Only takes one bad job to completely flip that opinion around.

    Poyet at the moment is no doubt seen (not in here, in general) as a promising manager. What he does at Brighton next season will change that, they're meant to have some money to spend and will soon be moving to their new stadium (season after next?).
  • [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]well, my two suggestions seem to have had more than decent seasons, Sean O'Driscoll and Iain Adkins. I can't remember supporting too many of the above either.

    He's such a good manager you can't even get his name right. I think you mean Nigel Adkins.
  • [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]I can't remember supporting too many of the above either.
    Don't think AFKA meant you supported all of them, but I can remember Allen, Tilson and Ferguson at least all being mentioned on here by others as potential managers for us.
  • very good.

    And while we're on the subject of managers, the internal appointment of Brian McDermott when they were at the bottom of league 1 has worked much better than the external appointments at Sheff Wed (not sure if AKFA mentioned that one), Palace or Peterboro.
  • Interesting and thought-provoking . Makes Curbs' continued success in his time with us even more impressive.
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  • [cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]well, my two suggestions seem to have had more than decent seasons, Sean O'Driscoll andIain Adkins.I can't remember supporting too many of the above either.

    He's such a good manager you can't even get his name right. I think you mean Nigel Adkins.

    now edited but still reckon some on here wouldn't know who he is.
  • I have to agree with most of those assessments AFKA, with the possible exception of Coyle who has already got Bolton playing some decent football in less than half a season.

    I've always backed Parkinson as I think he has done a good job considering the circumstances. I wouldn't want most of those managers near our club. It's all OK people saying Parky should be sacked but there is no (realistic) alternative who could do a better job in my opinion.
  • WSSWSS
    edited April 2010
    I'll do it before anyone else:

    "I don't care who is a decent manager or crap manager elsewhere. I only care about Charlton and Parkinson has failed at this club whether you think it or not. He has the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th highest wage budget in the league and we should be going up (although if we did it would be in spite of him, not because of him)"
  • edited April 2010
    For what it's worth though i think to be labelled as a good manager you need to have succeeded at 2 clubs. A number of the ones AFKA mentioned (Ince, Ferguson, Brown, Gannon, Coyle) have only had success at one club which could be seen as a flash in the pan.
    Managers like Gary Johnson have done well at 2 clubs as did Mowbray. Mowbray had a mare at Celtic which could just mean he can't handle high pressure jobs, not that he's necessarily a bad manager for a smaller club.
    Obviously there are 1 club exceptions like Wenger though.
  • i thought billy davies was the only name that we were in agreement for. i am sure at some point the wheels will have to come off for him though and someone can say - i told you he was no good.

    most on the list above weren't really wanted by us plebs, especially ince ffs
  • [cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]I'll do it before anyone else:

    "I don't care who is a decent manager or crap manager elsewhere. I only care about Charlton and Parkinson has failed at this club whether you think it or not. He has the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th highest wage budget in the league and we should be going up (although if e did it would be in spite of him, not becasue of him)"

    Who was the above from please?

    If anyone said at the start of the season we would have a place in the Play Offs, i would have taken that, considering what squad we had before pre season. Would anyone else available done better?
  • A goodly number of people on here didn't even think Curbs was a good manager back in the netaddicks days and still blame him for where we are now.

    Parky has done a decent a job as could reasonably be respected given his (lack of) resources. My only significant variance with what he has done is the (lack of) use of Jonjo Shelvey but AFKA has put the other viewpoint to that eloquently enough on the Jonjo thread.

    Too many football fans (not just at Charlton) are like Verruca Salt in Charlie and The Chocolate Factory. "I want it NOW Daddy"
  • WSS you forgot that the Board backed him by hanging onto the 3.5m rated wonderkid Jonjo Shelvey and he has repaid them by barely playing him at all and as a consequence reducing his value.
  • [cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]I'll do it before anyone else:

    "I don't care who is a decent manager or crap manager elsewhere. I only care about Charlton and Parkinson has failed at this club whether you think it or not. He has the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th highest wage budget in the league and we should be going up (although if we did it would be in spite of him, not because of him)"
    You forgot "We should be walking this league with these players".
  • [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite] given his (lack of) resources

    let's not get onto that again. Isn't it a percieved lack of resources as opposed to an actual lack of resources ? I mean the Board allow you to hang onto your best prospect for years, rated at 3.5m last summer by Chelsea, and then you don't use him. The Board also resist the temptation to cash in on Nicky Bailey. The squad budget and recent further loan signings mean that he hasn't had a lack of resources when compared to any of the top six in the League. Of course, he'd like to tell you otherwise ......
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  • JTJT
    edited April 2010
    Eddie Howe should get manager of the Football League this season.

    What he's done at Bournemouth is nothing short of a miracle.
  • Very few managers are consistently good. Even Curbs had spells where he lost nine or ten in a row. Had he been at any other club he may well have been sacked after such a bad run. I'd say Colin W*nker is a good manager and is now doing the business again at QPR.
    As for Parky, Ive been critical lately because I believe a big opportunity has been lost due to his conservative tactics. Like Len my main gripe is his lack of using Shelvey, who I think could have made the difference. In Parky's defence, I think the guy has been scared of losing his job from day one, and this has dictated a lot of his decisions.
  • edited April 2010
    [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]given his (lack of) resources

    let's not get onto that again. Isn't it a percieved lack of resources as opposed to an actual lack of resources ? I mean the Board allow you to hang onto your best prospect for years, rated at 3.5m last summer by Chelsea, and then you don't use him. The Board also resist the temptation to cash in on Nicky Bailey. The squad budget and recent further loan signings mean that he hasn't had a lack of resources when compared to any of the top six in the League. Of course, he'd like to tell you otherwise ......
    Wages fair enough, we are right up there.

    However Norwich won the league having spent money on Holt and Hoolahan, and I think a few others. Leeds have signed a few players for undisclosed fees, and they're 2nd. Huddersfield spent £300k on Robbie Simpson, and others for undisclosed fees. Transfer fees though we're some way off the top, equally bottom of the league in fact.
  • edited April 2010
    Peter Taylor set Wycombe on the way to nowhere???.....erm, he got them promoted into League 1.
  • [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]given his (lack of) resources

    let's not get onto that again. Isn't it a percieved lack of resources as opposed to an actual lack of resources ? I mean the Board allow you to hang onto your best prospect for years, rated at 3.5m last summer by Chelsea, and then you don't use him. The Board also resist the temptation to cash in on Nicky Bailey. The squad budget and recent further loan signings mean that he hasn't had a lack of resources when compared to any of the top six in the League. Of course, he'd like to tell you otherwise ......
    Shouldn't this be in the Jonjo Shelvey thread ;o)
  • [cite]Posted By: JT[/cite]Eddie Howe should get manager of the Football League this season.

    What he's done at Bournemouth is nothing short of a miracle.

    Totally agree. That clubs have had to deal with so much over the past few years and he has done a tremendous job down there in a season when they've often had less than 16 players in training, sometimes fewer than 11, he was a good player too. They've had some good players down there over the years (most recently Wade Elliot) and they've not been able to keep hold of them. It is a real shame, because if they ever reach the Championship they have such potential to become a decent sized club by expanding the stadium down there.
  • [cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]Peter Taylor set Wycombe on the way to nowhere???.....erm, he got them promoted into League 1.

    I think that was AFKA's point. He was "good" and now he's "bad".

    On the have to do it at two clubs to be good that rules out a lot of people including Curbs and Busby.

    Steve Cotterill was a name that people didn't want but he's done well at Notts Co.

    Nigel Atkins is, IMHO, an excellent manager and I and Large Addick, have been singing his praises for a while. O'Driscoll has also done well but to prove AFKA's point he was sacked by Bournemouth.
  • Even if the board had the money, I doubt with his track record of spotting talent that they would give Parkinson any cash.

    I know I wouldn't.
  • As many have already said, pinpointing exactly what makes a good manager is very subjective.

    For me, it is the abilty to get the best out of the players you have and motivate them to succeed.

    Now compare our showing against Norwich with the performance at Exeter 7 days later and that tells me all I need to know about Parky.
  • [cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]Even if the board had the money, I doubt with his track record of spotting talent that they would give Parkinson any cash.

    I know I wouldn't.
    What? Really? Who has Parkinson signed that is so poor? McKenzie is injured and he's had no money to sign "better players"
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