Brilliant article by Steve Howard in the pullout about the mess Curbs left us in, absolutely spot on.......not sure how to do a link etc but well worth a read..
everyone should shoulder some responsibility, as everyone has made mistakes.
Curbs - Left us in poor shape and a poor squad. Failed to motivate up to previous levels, knew to get out at the right time and keep his reputation intact.
Richard Murray - Wrong to decide on the structure they wanted until finding the right man to fit at the top of the structure. Wrong to select Dowie, with obvious characteristics that would never just 'fit into' a structure; Still believe there was a small part of the appointment in wanting to get back at Jordan. Wrong when he decided to dismiss Dowie to appoint Reed immediately, especially when it was obvious the players had no respect for him. Wrong to let Peter Varney single-handedly front all the flack. Wrong to publicly single out one player publicly, regardless of what that player had done. Wrong to have given Dowie quite so much money straigh away.
Peter Varney - Bit of a scapegoat, but wrong to give on more than one occassion a quote to the press stating something would happen, only for the opposite to happen in less than a week. It sends out the message the board is making it up as they go along, and not being 100% straight with supporters. As we have learnt in the past, sometimes its better to say nothing in periods of uncertainess.
Dowie - Wrong to accept a job in a set structure and then expect to be able to change it around within a couple of months. Wrong to have wasted so much money on poor acquisitions. If true, wrong to let his brother anywhere near the dressing room area at Fulham away. If true, very wrong to go and stay at home before Wigan away and turn up a few hours before KO.
Reed - Wrong to have accepted a job which would make or break his career when he would of known the players were not behind him from the start.
Supporters - Its easy to blame everyone else, without looking at yourselves. Perhaps were were wrong in letting our expectations get above us a little bit. Perhaps in hindsight, we should of been 'grateful' for the premiership status secured in the past two seasons, even if they were it had been attained had not been enjoyable to watch.
I think Reed is pretty much exempt from blame to be honest, in fact I think in taking the job in those circumstances - i.e the squad in the shape it was - he took a risk with his own career, as he wasn't given the opportunity to change the real problems, i.e. the playing staff.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]Richard Murray - Wrong to decide on the structure they wanted until finding the right man to fit at the top of the structure. Wrong to select Dowie, with obvious characteristics that would never just 'fit into' a structure; Still believe there was a small part of the appointment in wanting to get back at Jordan. Wrong when he decided to dismiss Dowie to appoint Reed immediately, especially when it was obvious the players had no respect for him. Wrong to let Peter Varney single-handedly front all the flack. Wrong to publicly single out one player publicly, regardless of what that player had done. Wrong to have given Dowie quite so much money straigh away.
Too many crass decisions which IMO is killing the club. Should therefore stand down as chairman.
Peter Varney - Bit of a scapegoat, but wrong to give on more than one occassion a quote to the press stating something would happen, only for the opposite to happen in less than a week. It sends out the message the board is making it up as they go along, and not being 100% straight with supporters. As we have learnt in the past, sometimes its better to say nothing in periods of uncertainess.
As he keeps opening his mouth to the press and telling them lies I simply just cannot trust him. Also this is killing the club. IMO he should also make the same swift exit from the board.
Supporters - Its easy to blame everyone else, without looking at yourselves. Perhaps were were wrong in letting our expectations get above us a little bit.
i don't really consider you're views on this because i'm pretty sure you held these views before the mess of this season. There is something personal about this and i think you're views are blinkered.
I'd be very interested if any others shared your views, and suprised.
Out of interest, so Murray and Varney step down tomorrow. Who exactly would run the club, or who would you want to run the club ?
I've always seen them a bit like good cop bad cop, Varney being the latter. But if you want to lay blame on them you have to identify what decisions and why, and then attribute responsibility. In all fairness, is six seasons in the top flight followed by relegation really a failure for a club our size?
i'd like to know if there's anyone else who loves charlton as much as murray and is prepared to piss millions of their own money down the drain.... no.... well let's be grateful for him cos without him we may not have achieved some of the recent highs our club has achieved . as a supporter for 30 years i know the last 10 have been light years better than the previous 20
Richard Murray may have made some mistakes this year but anyone who wants him replaced should be made to sit down and watch a replay of the , Gliksten family, Mark Hulyer and John Fryer (Sunley Holdings anyone) days to bring them back to reality. If there's one bloke who is still well in credit after all this its Murray. Varney is an irrelevance to this, he is not the cash or the brains just the executor.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]i don't really consider you're views on this because i'm pretty sure you held these views before the mess of this season. There is something personal about this and i think you're views are blinkered.
Didn't have those views before the mess and there is nothing personal. But it is their crass decisions which have helped put the club in the mess it is in now. I simply don't trust them to be running a so-called established Premiership club.
Out of interest, so Murray and Varney step down tomorrow. Who exactly would run the club, or who would you want to run the club ?
Someone with quite a bit of cash - we seem to have a pauper of a chairman compared to numerous other clubs.
[cite]Posted By: abrown1972[/cite]Richard Murray may have made some mistakes this year but anyone who wants him replaced should be made to sit down and watch a replay of the , Gliksten family, Mark Hulyer and John Fryer (Sunley Holdings anyone) days to bring them back to reality.
If there's one bloke who is still well in credit after all this its Murray.
Varney is an irrelevance to this, he is not the cash or the brains just the executor.
[cite]Posted By: abrown1972[/cite]Richard Murray may have made some mistakes this year but anyone who wants him replaced should be made to sit down and watch a replay of the , Gliksten family, Mark Hulyer and John Fryer (Sunley Holdings anyone) days to bring them back to reality.
And I feel the club could be on its way back to all those bad times. We are a club struggling near the bottom of the table, with players who would rather fart arse passing the ball sideways and backwards rather than attempting to get a shot on target (much in evidence on Saturday), cannot seem to sign any players, STILL gets dumped out of two cups by lower division opposition and have, according to the media, become the laughing stock of the Premiership. One of our recent opponents seems to think that we are worse than Accrington Stanley.
Varney is an irrelevance to this, he is not the cash or the brains just the executor.
He would rather open his mouth to the media and use the same spin which within days becomes false.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]well let's be grateful for him cos without him we may not have achieved some of the recent highs our club has achieved . as a supporter for 30 years i know the last 10 have been light years better than the previous 20
What he has acheived in the last ten years is all very commendable - but what about the next ten. The way things are going we could be in worse shit than those bad days.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]followed by relegation really a failure for a club our size?
I would call relegation a failure for a so-called established premiership club. It would destroy all the good work that has been done in the last few years.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Come off it Roy, we're not as bad as Accrington Stanley, that just shows how poor your arguement is.
But us as bad as Accrington Stanley is what one of our opponent's is reputed to have said - not my opinion. However I see that Accrington Stanley have managed to beat Wycombe this season - something which we have failed to do.
and we've beat Bolton who beat Arsenal, who beat Man U, who won the Champions League once........
Think that Sheffield smog has pickled your brain.
No one is doubting the board have not made a catalogue of mistakes this season, but if you want to put about prominent 'outing' views, you're going to have to find yourself a much stronger arguement otherwise you will forever be a lone voice.
And most long voices are either cranks or wind up merchants....
I still point the finger at those passionless prima donnas on the pitch.
As for Varney/Murray et al, I have nothing but my continued respect (and Curbs/Reed - judge still out on Dowie until more information is released) - if they have made mistakes, so be it - we have all made them in our time. But there is one thing I am sure about, and that is whatever decision whether it turned out right or wrong, they have given the club 100% - unlike those ungrateful bastards on the pitch.
Cheeky-Bandit- you must puit your red-tinted glasses on before you have an opinion on here or join the clique....Sorry to be so smug but me and a few others predicted this would happen 2 seasons ago...
[cite]Posted By: Solidgone[/cite]I still point the finger at those passionless prima donnas on the pitch.
A lot of the blame is with them. I feel that if they played like forest did rather than being fart arsing prima donnas we might be better off.
As for Varney/Murray et al, I have nothing but my continued respect (and Curbs/Reed - judge still out on Dowie until more information is released) - if they have made mistakes, so be it - we have all made them in our time.
But the crass decisions which I feel are also a factor in the club being a mess causes me to no longer have the same respect I had for them before this season. Especially if the mistakes they have made prove to be very costly.
But there is one thing I am sure about, and that is whatever decision whether it turned out right or wrong, they have given the club 100%
Given the club 100% before this season - but since them I am not so sure.
[cite]Posted By: Solidgone[/cite]I still point the finger at those passionless prima donnas on the pitch.
As for Varney/Murray et al, I have nothing but my continued respect (and Curbs/Reed - judge still out on Dowie until more information is released) - if they have made mistakes, so be it - we have all made them in our time. But there is one thing I am sure about, and that is whatever decision whether it turned out right or wrong, they have given the club 100% - unlike those ungrateful bastards on the pitch.
I agree entirely, Solid, except on ID where my mind is made up.
Roy Arnold/Sheffield Eagle = unfunny wind up merchant banker. Please make him go away someone. The only problem is not him but that it would be good to have a rational debate about what has gone wrong, why and what can be done to do it better next time and to be able to share that with the board. moronic comments like his make that nigh impossible and will only make it less likely for the board to listen to fans with an open mind. If we want them to go in a bunker then this is just the way to go about it.
"I agree entirely, Solid, except on ID where my mind is made up." Says Henry Irving You keep slaging off Dowie, on here and in your column. I think it is time you said more about your reasons or just lay off him. I think he is a decent bloke who got mugged. Please do not come back with the old...."I'd like to say more but I can't" trash. Either say why you hate him or shut up.
Comments
Curbs - Left us in poor shape and a poor squad. Failed to motivate up to previous levels, knew to get out at the right time and keep his reputation intact.
Richard Murray - Wrong to decide on the structure they wanted until finding the right man to fit at the top of the structure. Wrong to select Dowie, with obvious characteristics that would never just 'fit into' a structure; Still believe there was a small part of the appointment in wanting to get back at Jordan. Wrong when he decided to dismiss Dowie to appoint Reed immediately, especially when it was obvious the players had no respect for him. Wrong to let Peter Varney single-handedly front all the flack. Wrong to publicly single out one player publicly, regardless of what that player had done. Wrong to have given Dowie quite so much money straigh away.
Peter Varney - Bit of a scapegoat, but wrong to give on more than one occassion a quote to the press stating something would happen, only for the opposite to happen in less than a week. It sends out the message the board is making it up as they go along, and not being 100% straight with supporters. As we have learnt in the past, sometimes its better to say nothing in periods of uncertainess.
Dowie - Wrong to accept a job in a set structure and then expect to be able to change it around within a couple of months. Wrong to have wasted so much money on poor acquisitions. If true, wrong to let his brother anywhere near the dressing room area at Fulham away. If true, very wrong to go and stay at home before Wigan away and turn up a few hours before KO.
Reed - Wrong to have accepted a job which would make or break his career when he would of known the players were not behind him from the start.
Supporters - Its easy to blame everyone else, without looking at yourselves. Perhaps were were wrong in letting our expectations get above us a little bit. Perhaps in hindsight, we should of been 'grateful' for the premiership status secured in the past two seasons, even if they were it had been attained had not been enjoyable to watch.
Too many crass decisions which IMO is killing the club. Should therefore stand down as chairman.
As he keeps opening his mouth to the press and telling them lies I simply just cannot trust him. Also this is killing the club. IMO he should also make the same swift exit from the board.
And go back to us expecting mediocrity?
I'd be very interested if any others shared your views, and suprised.
Out of interest, so Murray and Varney step down tomorrow. Who exactly would run the club, or who would you want to run the club ?
That is wrong-
Fancy Ken Bates, Peter Ridsdale, Rupert Lowe, Theo Paphitis et al as our Chairman then?
If there's one bloke who is still well in credit after all this its Murray.
Varney is an irrelevance to this, he is not the cash or the brains just the executor.
Didn't have those views before the mess and there is nothing personal. But it is their crass decisions which have helped put the club in the mess it is in now. I simply don't trust them to be running a so-called established Premiership club.
Someone with quite a bit of cash - we seem to have a pauper of a chairman compared to numerous other clubs.
Well said. People have short memories.
Someone with quite a bit of cash - we seem to have a pauper of a chairman compared to numerous other clubs.[/quote]
yes you have, you've been pushing these views elsewhere for quite some time.
I'm sorry, of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but the above sentence just about says it all.
How much do you reckon our 'pauper of a chairman' has put into the club in the last 16 years ? take a guess ?
And I feel the club could be on its way back to all those bad times. We are a club struggling near the bottom of the table, with players who would rather fart arse passing the ball sideways and backwards rather than attempting to get a shot on target (much in evidence on Saturday), cannot seem to sign any players, STILL gets dumped out of two cups by lower division opposition and have, according to the media, become the laughing stock of the Premiership. One of our recent opponents seems to think that we are worse than Accrington Stanley.
He would rather open his mouth to the media and use the same spin which within days becomes false.
What he has acheived in the last ten years is all very commendable - but what about the next ten. The way things are going we could be in worse shit than those bad days.
Cup shocks happen, don't like it, but we're suckers for one on a regular basis, it happens, such is life.
So who's got the money then Roy, to take over from Murray?
But us as bad as Accrington Stanley is what one of our opponent's is reputed to have said - not my opinion. However I see that Accrington Stanley have managed to beat Wycombe this season - something which we have failed to do.
Think that Sheffield smog has pickled your brain.
No one is doubting the board have not made a catalogue of mistakes this season, but if you want to put about prominent 'outing' views, you're going to have to find yourself a much stronger arguement otherwise you will forever be a lone voice.
And most long voices are either cranks or wind up merchants....
As for Varney/Murray et al, I have nothing but my continued respect (and Curbs/Reed - judge still out on Dowie until more information is released) - if they have made mistakes, so be it - we have all made them in our time. But there is one thing I am sure about, and that is whatever decision whether it turned out right or wrong, they have given the club 100% - unlike those ungrateful bastards on the pitch.
A lot of the blame is with them. I feel that if they played like forest did rather than being fart arsing prima donnas we might be better off.
But the crass decisions which I feel are also a factor in the club being a mess causes me to no longer have the same respect I had for them before this season. Especially if the mistakes they have made prove to be very costly.
Given the club 100% before this season - but since them I am not so sure.
I agree entirely, Solid, except on ID where my mind is made up.
Roy Arnold/Sheffield Eagle = unfunny wind up merchant banker. Please make him go away someone. The only problem is not him but that it would be good to have a rational debate about what has gone wrong, why and what can be done to do it better next time and to be able to share that with the board. moronic comments like his make that nigh impossible and will only make it less likely for the board to listen to fans with an open mind. If we want them to go in a bunker then this is just the way to go about it.
Says Henry Irving
You keep slaging off Dowie, on here and in your column. I think it is time you said more about your reasons or just lay off him.
I think he is a decent bloke who got mugged.
Please do not come back with the old...."I'd like to say more but I can't" trash. Either say why you hate him or shut up.