There are various groups/bodies from the political to CAMRA who are attempting to try to get HM Gov to help stop the wipe out of the "British Pub"--- whilst we might argue what our"culture" is or indeed even if we have one(as 2 jags has suggested) we can surely agree that the pub---inn---boozer is and has been a part of our community and life experience-------------------AND ITS DISAPPEARING FAST.
Driving last week or so down the Old Kent Road stunned me. Having lived in Deptford for over 10 years the OKR would be a regular drinking place. This is what isaw:
The Anchor --- a chinese restuarnt
Canterbury Arms----African resturant
Henry Cooper --- African Church
Wellington----Veitnamese Club
Dun Cow----- a surgery
Thomas ABecket -- boarded up
World turned Upside down-----boarded up
at least one of the above ahs been gone for a good few years , but driving that whole length of the OKR its a struggle to see a boozer at all. we can see in our local araes where pubs have just closed/etc but 50 a week in England --yes thats 50 a week are closing.
There are various petions on ine to try to get some central help for the pubs-- surely something to sign ?
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The Government need to narrow the difference in price between purchasing alcohol in the supermarkets, and that in pubs.Unfortunately they are likely to just increase duty in off sales and not decrease the tax paid on alcohol in pubs.
You should also bear in mind that the breweries hold a lot of pubs to ransom over the price per barrell. They need to change their practices otherwise they will end up shooting themselves in the foot.
Or just end up selling their beer to supermarkets.
Who needs a pint of perfectly presented traditional beer in a pub ...... when you can get BOGOF on a 4-pack of
warm Fosters in a can......?
You may remember that a year ago the Government imposed an 8% increase on beer duty to ensure that pub consumers and industry did not benefit from the VAT cut which took effect on 1 January.
This was both unfair and unjustified – and now the Government appears ready to deliver another hammer blow by keeping duty up once VAT returns to its normal rate on 1 January next year.
This will mean a further 6p on a pint of beer and even more pub closures – now running at a record 50 a week across Britain.
As a supporter of British beer and pubs, we would like you to lobby your MP to urge him or her to sign up to a parliamentary motion to call on the Chancellor to cut beer duty as VAT increases.
As Goonerhater said earlier since the 2008 Goverment Budget 3,608 Pubs have closed.
Think the goverment want us to be non smoking non drinking Electric car drivers, well b*lls to that.
Well we what we want ....... is not this frickin 2-faced, self-serving government, that's for sure.
Luckily round our way the pubs are all still open, and dew mainly to having the football on i think, at least i have something to thank all the plastic chelsea, arsenal, man u blah blah........likers for, i do enjoy digging them out for why they are never there, and hearing their excuses 'i am loyal mate i never miss a match on sky' quality!
It is sad driving round and seeing pubs borded up though, places seem soulless when its like that.............lacking identity, if you know what i mean. You can tell a lot about a town by popping into the local!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p32m8/The_Culture_Show_2009_2010_Episode_16/
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Realciderbeerale/
I hate to see decent pubs shutting down. The only thing i hate more is this incompetent rabble supposed to be our Government, that sits back and does nothing.
However, we have to face some tough facts. The next government whatever political party it is. Will be faced with record borrowing debt which has to be repaid. In order to do so, taxes WILL rise.
So ask yourself, what taxes? I might not welcome any tax increase, but if something has to increase, why not alcohol (and indeed tobacco but that's a different arguement) No one needs alcohol. It is a mild drug that we use for pleasure. It is not essential for life.
If we continue to increase the price of alcohol, we will increase pub closures. So government needs to find an answer to this. I wish i KNEW the answer but i guess i don't. However i do think a possible answer would be to significantly increase the tax on beer sold from supermarkets/shops/off licences etc. To encourage beer drinkers into pubs and to prevent the big supermarkets from using beer as a 'loss leader'
Sometimes i do drink at home and therefore would suffer from this, but i'm just offering an idea for discussion.
I'm not a great fan of Wetherspoons but they do some nice ales and seem to be succeeding.
However, we have to face some tough facts. The next government whatever political party it is. Will be faced with record borrowing debt which has to be repaid. In order to do so, taxes WILL rise.
So ask yourself, what taxes? I might not welcome any tax increase, but if something has to increase, why not alcohol (and indeed tobacco but that's a different arguement) No one needs alcohol. It is a mild drug that we use for pleasure. It is not essential for life.
It should be taken from the bank that have taken the money. Wage caps put in place on the banks that owe the taxpayer money and no bonus until the debt is paid off. But I will get told off for changing the thread now!
That's why pubs are closing.
If this wretched government are so desperate to increase taxation on alcohol, it's supermarket pricing and profiteering which seems the obvious target.
A lot of the time they are selling the booze as a loss leader.
They might lose 2 quid a case of beer but they know they will make profit from any sundry items the shopper buys.
Even if supermarkets are selling some alcohol as a loss leader, they can profit consistantly everytime a shopper is drawn into their store.
Perhaps the fact that they appear to be selling alcohol under market price is as much responsible for pub closures, as the Governments damning excessive taxation, compared to most other products.
Combine the two reasons - and it's not surprising many pubs are struggling and closing.
What next ....... a cut-price bar at every supermarket, drinks for a quid?
That'll be as cosy as a bar at an airport,
We can't use legislation or taxation to replace the "market forces" that inevitably mean some pubs shut.
I'm all for crappy pubs closing.
But we're losing good pubs too ......in villages, for example, whole communities are losing their only venue to socialise.
Next goes the school, the post office and the village shop.
The British Public Hse is just that it the British Public Hse--- and its going fast.
Our only hope is the fact that as its part of our tradition and heritage HM Gov will realise that and leap to its rescue ---------------------o shit !
hey here is an idea call em "ethnic churches" (well in a way they are) and ask for a grant to keep em going.
In my view this is primarily an economic issue not a cultural one. If you want to look at the demise of the pub, it started in the reign of one Thatcher M, whose Government decided to "deal" with the tied pub arrangements and change the relationship between the brewers and the publican/landlord. For years the economic model of most pubs (bar a few free houses) was heavily, heavily stacked in favour of the major breweries. Camra's campaigns of the 1970s/80s had forced a change of attitude towards traditional ales and turned the major breweries around to re-embrace that but it was the deals under the Tories to bust wide open the tied pub arrangement which has led to a mutliplicity of new bars, pubs, clubs and resturants etc. J D Wetherspoon being a prime example of the growth of new chains.
If you take Wetherspoons as an example, they have developed pubs usually from an existing building. In Norwich for example they have developed an old industrial building with some architectural heritage and turned it into a pub.
Take the Firkin pubs. New players in the last 30 years. I used to drink at the Fox in Lewisham. This was a converted Mission Hall replete with pulpit etc.
It's a shame to me that this thread starts with an ethnic/cultural question at its heart when it's really bound up in an economic issue. Would these pubs mentioned have remained pubs if they were well patronised/heaving places? The answer to that is no in my view.
Why don't we have a campaign to save Mission Halls from the dreaded effects of the demon drink? The reason it is no longer a Mission Hall and became a pub was because peoples patterns of living changed and driven by economic circumstances whereby more personal financial wealth has surplanted the need for spritual wealth.
Culture is an ever changing and evolving thing. It should not, indeed it has never been in our country, a fixed point, fossilised in time. Change comes, some of it challenging but our nation, like our language has absorbed the best parts from other cultures. That is how we should celebrate our Britishness, through growth not stagnation.
i dont "celebrate" the passing of our culture ( thats even if it is or what ever it was) I would also like to know how growth of our culture is achieved with wide spread closures ?
(re)Built following a fire in the station. It has a little train running round the wall.
Mind it has been some years since I last visited and, of course, the entire chain was taken over by Taylor Walker.
But that's a harsh one-size-fits-all judgement if applied to villages, where the village pub is basically the only social centre.
So why are you indoors answering questions and lamenting the closure of village pubs and not out doing your bit to prevent them from closing?
Pubs and alcohol are too expensive for social drinking but I also think that these days there are plenty of things to compete for our leisure time - Sky TV with several hundred channels to choose from, cheap alcohol from supermarkets, DVDs and even the internet. You can also include increased social mobility - it's common now for people to live away from the area where they were brought up and consequently when they do they move away from a wider circle of friends to a place where they know fewer people - therefore less people to socialise with. The pub has been the big loser with a lot of modern socio-economic trends. I don't think that it's just about money and the cost of a pint though - people still go to football despite it being far more expensive on a £ for £ basis than it was a few years ago.