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Leasing a car

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  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Leasing can work for some, but I still view it as an expensive way to never own a car. What you do get is a new one but depends how important that is to you.

    I’m changing my car this weekend. I currently have a car that was £110k new with an option list that was frankly ridiculous. I paid 37k for it when it was 2.5 years old, and just sold it for £32.5k, total costs (I’ve had for 2.5 years) was £4.5k depreciation, £1400 warranty and £180 for a service (although that was refunded but that's another story).

    So all in excluding fuel and insurance is about 6k or a bit under £200 a month. And I’ve been driving the highest end/spec car I’ll probably ever own.

    Or for the same money I could have leased a Corsa or similar. I know what I prefer to spend time in.

    It is somewhat horses for courses, I don't do a lot of miles, maybe 7-8k per annum in this car, but I'd rather drive a high end second hand car than a lower end new one.

    As long as you buy right second hand, it'll always be better in my view aside form the odd crazy deal that is sometimes on offer when a manufacturer wants to get a new model out on the road quickly.

    You do of course need the money to do so In the first place, although loans are cheap money right now.

    I definitely don't need a new car, but I do want a decent SUV for the family that is more than i want to outlay with savings.

    Your commentary on the situation is almost exactly as it is going through my head, but i just can't come to a decision. With an asset that depreciates over time like cars do, i just can't see the value in owning one, necessarily. But on the same token, i've always seen 'renting' as chucking away money.

    got a personal loan for my last car, but did the numbers for this one and the repayments outstrip the lease cost by about 200 a month.

    PS. sounds like you got a pretty ridiculous deal on your car! What are you buying with the proceeds?
    Arriving Saturday is an Audi RS6, current car was a Cayenne 4.2 v8 that had only ever been sat in the drivers seat despite the owner from new specing nearly £6k worthy of options for the rear seat passengers. Still had the covers on the rear mats when I bought it! I did get a very good deal on it, basically I used to run a motor fleet of about 100 cars (that we bought, not leased!) so I got to know a lot of dealers.

    You should be able to buy an 18month-2 year old car of higher quality for the same as a lease on a new one over a 2-3 year period.

    Your monthly lease is basically paying for depreciation! You don't avoid it by leasing, far from it!

    What SUV's are you looking at?
    Mazda CX-5 and Discovery sport at the moment - but that's based on leasing them. Had a CX-5 before and I loved it, the spec you get for the price is unreal.

    I can afford to move up a class, and love the f-pace and Stelvio...but i'm not sure i want the price commitment at the moment, both possibly too new for a second hand purchase.

    I'm also trying to buy and sell a house so finance, while not tight, is under scrutiny.

    Didn't you fancy sticking with the Cayenne? I've never driven a RS Audi to be fair but that Porsche sounds like a machine!
    For me buying at around 2 years old and changing every 2-3 years is the optimum for value.

    The Cayenne was a great car, from heated and cooled seats, to remote heater, auto cruise so all I ever did was steer and 101 other gizmo’s but it was the right time for it to go. Was very quick and still did 30+ to the gallon.

    The RS6 is something else, 0-62 in 3.7 and limited to 173mph!! Very similar spec although I lose the cooled seats :neutral:

    I’d never buy another land rover, every other car is a Friday lemon! Lease sounds as if it works for you right now. Nothing wrong with it but an expensive route long term.
    bobmunro said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Leasing can work for some, but I still view it as an expensive way to never own a car. What you do get is a new one but depends how important that is to you.

    I’m changing my car this weekend. I currently have a car that was £110k new with an option list that was frankly ridiculous. I paid 37k for it when it was 2.5 years old, and just sold it for £32.5k, total costs (I’ve had for 2.5 years) was £4.5k depreciation, £1400 warranty and £180 for a service (although that was refunded but that's another story).

    So all in excluding fuel and insurance is about 6k or a bit under £200 a month. And I’ve been driving the highest end/spec car I’ll probably ever own.

    Or for the same money I could have leased a Corsa or similar. I know what I prefer to spend time in.

    It is somewhat horses for courses, I don't do a lot of miles, maybe 7-8k per annum in this car, but I'd rather drive a high end second hand car than a lower end new one.

    As long as you buy right second hand, it'll always be better in my view aside form the odd crazy deal that is sometimes on offer when a manufacturer wants to get a new model out on the road quickly.

    You do of course need the money to do so In the first place, although loans are cheap money right now.

    I take a Company car but if I didn't I would do the same - buy a high end used car around 2 years old and change every couple of years.
    It’s the way to go, if you can take cash it may work out better for you. I do low miles so tend to buy a slightly higher than average miles car which after 2 years is back to average or below.
    @Rob7Lee thanks - plenty of food for thought

    Could all be moot, i just went back to the new job asking for more money...
  • @Rob7Lee are there any particular dealers you would recommend for high end motors? We're in the market for a high end SUV, like a Volvo XC90, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne or maybe even a Range. Also like the look of the Disco 4s.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Leasing can work for some, but I still view it as an expensive way to never own a car. What you do get is a new one but depends how important that is to you.

    I’m changing my car this weekend. I currently have a car that was £110k new with an option list that was frankly ridiculous. I paid 37k for it when it was 2.5 years old, and just sold it for £32.5k, total costs (I’ve had for 2.5 years) was £4.5k depreciation, £1400 warranty and £180 for a service (although that was refunded but that's another story).

    So all in excluding fuel and insurance is about 6k or a bit under £200 a month. And I’ve been driving the highest end/spec car I’ll probably ever own.

    Or for the same money I could have leased a Corsa or similar. I know what I prefer to spend time in.

    It is somewhat horses for courses, I don't do a lot of miles, maybe 7-8k per annum in this car, but I'd rather drive a high end second hand car than a lower end new one.

    As long as you buy right second hand, it'll always be better in my view aside form the odd crazy deal that is sometimes on offer when a manufacturer wants to get a new model out on the road quickly.

    You do of course need the money to do so In the first place, although loans are cheap money right now.

    I definitely don't need a new car, but I do want a decent SUV for the family that is more than i want to outlay with savings.

    Your commentary on the situation is almost exactly as it is going through my head, but i just can't come to a decision. With an asset that depreciates over time like cars do, i just can't see the value in owning one, necessarily. But on the same token, i've always seen 'renting' as chucking away money.

    got a personal loan for my last car, but did the numbers for this one and the repayments outstrip the lease cost by about 200 a month.

    PS. sounds like you got a pretty ridiculous deal on your car! What are you buying with the proceeds?
    Arriving Saturday is an Audi RS6, current car was a Cayenne 4.2 v8 that had only ever been sat in the drivers seat despite the owner from new specing nearly £6k worthy of options for the rear seat passengers. Still had the covers on the rear mats when I bought it! I did get a very good deal on it, basically I used to run a motor fleet of about 100 cars (that we bought, not leased!) so I got to know a lot of dealers.

    You should be able to buy an 18month-2 year old car of higher quality for the same as a lease on a new one over a 2-3 year period.

    Your monthly lease is basically paying for depreciation! You don't avoid it by leasing, far from it!

    What SUV's are you looking at?
    Mazda CX-5 and Discovery sport at the moment - but that's based on leasing them. Had a CX-5 before and I loved it, the spec you get for the price is unreal.

    I can afford to move up a class, and love the f-pace and Stelvio...but i'm not sure i want the price commitment at the moment, both possibly too new for a second hand purchase.

    I'm also trying to buy and sell a house so finance, while not tight, is under scrutiny.

    Didn't you fancy sticking with the Cayenne? I've never driven a RS Audi to be fair but that Porsche sounds like a machine!
    For me buying at around 2 years old and changing every 2-3 years is the optimum for value.

    The Cayenne was a great car, from heated and cooled seats, to remote heater, auto cruise so all I ever did was steer and 101 other gizmo’s but it was the right time for it to go. Was very quick and still did 30+ to the gallon.

    The RS6 is something else, 0-62 in 3.7 and limited to 173mph!! Very similar spec although I lose the cooled seats :neutral:

    I’d never buy another land rover, every other car is a Friday lemon! Lease sounds as if it works for you right now. Nothing wrong with it but an expensive route long term.
    bobmunro said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Leasing can work for some, but I still view it as an expensive way to never own a car. What you do get is a new one but depends how important that is to you.

    I’m changing my car this weekend. I currently have a car that was £110k new with an option list that was frankly ridiculous. I paid 37k for it when it was 2.5 years old, and just sold it for £32.5k, total costs (I’ve had for 2.5 years) was £4.5k depreciation, £1400 warranty and £180 for a service (although that was refunded but that's another story).

    So all in excluding fuel and insurance is about 6k or a bit under £200 a month. And I’ve been driving the highest end/spec car I’ll probably ever own.

    Or for the same money I could have leased a Corsa or similar. I know what I prefer to spend time in.

    It is somewhat horses for courses, I don't do a lot of miles, maybe 7-8k per annum in this car, but I'd rather drive a high end second hand car than a lower end new one.

    As long as you buy right second hand, it'll always be better in my view aside form the odd crazy deal that is sometimes on offer when a manufacturer wants to get a new model out on the road quickly.

    You do of course need the money to do so In the first place, although loans are cheap money right now.

    I take a Company car but if I didn't I would do the same - buy a high end used car around 2 years old and change every couple of years.
    It’s the way to go, if you can take cash it may work out better for you. I do low miles so tend to buy a slightly higher than average miles car which after 2 years is back to average or below.
    The calculation is close for me - do about 15-20k miles per year and the petrol card shows a big profit over the benefit in kind tax I pay on it. The car BiK is however getting silly now so I may well take the cash allowance next time I'm due a replacement (which could be very soon, waiting to see if mine has been written off (chassis may have been compromised) after a shunt a couple of weeks ago).
  • JohnBoyUK said:

    @Rob7Lee are there any particular dealers you would recommend for high end motors? We're in the market for a high end SUV, like a Volvo XC90, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne or maybe even a Range. Also like the look of the Disco 4s.

    Probably easier to tell you where not to go! Give places like Prestige near Hewitts farm a miss.

    What sort of age? As that'll dictate where best.

    Under 3 years main dealers are a good place to start for this sort of vehicle, Range Rovers & Disco's can be very unreliable, not so much engine trouble but they are quite high end but they use low end parts. Parking brakes, transfer boxes air suspension pumps and the like regularly go and are a lot of cash to replace if no proper warranty.

    I'd highly recommend a Cayenne (does depend what one) but a lot of cash generally, I'd never run one without a Porsche Warranty which you can have added. All depends what you want from the car, I had a disco and it did a lot of things very well, a real cart horse, but slow as you like and drove me mad even with a remap and plenty of replacement parts over the 3 years I had it.


  • edited October 2018
    Rob7Lee said:

    JohnBoyUK said:

    @Rob7Lee are there any particular dealers you would recommend for high end motors? We're in the market for a high end SUV, like a Volvo XC90, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne or maybe even a Range. Also like the look of the Disco 4s.

    Probably easier to tell you where not to go! Give places like Prestige near Hewitts farm a miss.

    What sort of age? As that'll dictate where best.

    Under 3 years main dealers are a good place to start for this sort of vehicle, Range Rovers & Disco's can be very unreliable, not so much engine trouble but they are quite high end but they use low end parts. Parking brakes, transfer boxes air suspension pumps and the like regularly go and are a lot of cash to replace if no proper warranty.

    I'd highly recommend a Cayenne (does depend what one) but a lot of cash generally, I'd never run one without a Porsche Warranty which you can have added. All depends what you want from the car, I had a disco and it did a lot of things very well, a real cart horse, but slow as you like and drove me mad even with a remap and plenty of replacement parts over the 3 years I had it.


    I would also mention a VW Touareg - does most things a Cayenne does (without the badge and the pace!) but significantly cheaper and bomb proof as far as reliability is concerned.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    JohnBoyUK said:

    @Rob7Lee are there any particular dealers you would recommend for high end motors? We're in the market for a high end SUV, like a Volvo XC90, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne or maybe even a Range. Also like the look of the Disco 4s.

    Probably easier to tell you where not to go! Give places like Prestige near Hewitts farm a miss.

    What sort of age? As that'll dictate where best.

    Under 3 years main dealers are a good place to start for this sort of vehicle, Range Rovers & Disco's can be very unreliable, not so much engine trouble but they are quite high end but they use low end parts. Parking brakes, transfer boxes air suspension pumps and the like regularly go and are a lot of cash to replace if no proper warranty.

    I'd highly recommend a Cayenne (does depend what one) but a lot of cash generally, I'd never run one without a Porsche Warranty which you can have added. All depends what you want from the car, I had a disco and it did a lot of things very well, a real cart horse, but slow as you like and drove me mad even with a remap and plenty of replacement parts over the 3 years I had it.


    Funny you should mention Prestige. We only live round the corner from there pretty much and we ended up there in the summer when the wife saw an ad in auto trader and took an Overfinch Range Autobiography and a Sport out for a spin. Nice motors but seeing them operate out of what can only be described as a farm yard felt a bit off putting. The wife pretty much made up her mind that we'd only look at main dealers after that.

    We're looking at pretty much anything between 12-36 months, maybe even slightly older if its a very top end.
    bobmunro said:


    I would also mention a VW Touareg - does most things a Cayenne does (without the badge and the pace!) but significantly cheaper and bomb proof as far as reliability is concerned.

    Thats on the list too. We saw a lovely all black R-Design one on the A2 last week, beautful motor.

  • bobmunro said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    JohnBoyUK said:

    @Rob7Lee are there any particular dealers you would recommend for high end motors? We're in the market for a high end SUV, like a Volvo XC90, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne or maybe even a Range. Also like the look of the Disco 4s.

    Probably easier to tell you where not to go! Give places like Prestige near Hewitts farm a miss.

    What sort of age? As that'll dictate where best.

    Under 3 years main dealers are a good place to start for this sort of vehicle, Range Rovers & Disco's can be very unreliable, not so much engine trouble but they are quite high end but they use low end parts. Parking brakes, transfer boxes air suspension pumps and the like regularly go and are a lot of cash to replace if no proper warranty.

    I'd highly recommend a Cayenne (does depend what one) but a lot of cash generally, I'd never run one without a Porsche Warranty which you can have added. All depends what you want from the car, I had a disco and it did a lot of things very well, a real cart horse, but slow as you like and drove me mad even with a remap and plenty of replacement parts over the 3 years I had it.


    I would also mention a VW Touareg - does most things a Cayenne does (without the badge and the pace!) but significantly cheaper and bomb proof as far as reliability is concerned.
    Bit old now but the 5.0l V10 was a monster! Agree the Touareg is a cayenne in a different coat.
    JohnBoyUK said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    JohnBoyUK said:

    @Rob7Lee are there any particular dealers you would recommend for high end motors? We're in the market for a high end SUV, like a Volvo XC90, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne or maybe even a Range. Also like the look of the Disco 4s.

    Probably easier to tell you where not to go! Give places like Prestige near Hewitts farm a miss.

    What sort of age? As that'll dictate where best.

    Under 3 years main dealers are a good place to start for this sort of vehicle, Range Rovers & Disco's can be very unreliable, not so much engine trouble but they are quite high end but they use low end parts. Parking brakes, transfer boxes air suspension pumps and the like regularly go and are a lot of cash to replace if no proper warranty.

    I'd highly recommend a Cayenne (does depend what one) but a lot of cash generally, I'd never run one without a Porsche Warranty which you can have added. All depends what you want from the car, I had a disco and it did a lot of things very well, a real cart horse, but slow as you like and drove me mad even with a remap and plenty of replacement parts over the 3 years I had it.


    Funny you should mention Prestige. We only live round the corner from there pretty much and we ended up there in the summer when the wife saw an ad in auto trader and took an Overfinch Range Autobiography and a Sport out for a spin. Nice motors but seeing them operate out of what can only be described as a farm yard felt a bit off putting. The wife pretty much made up her mind that we'd only look at main dealers after that.

    We're looking at pretty much anything between 12-36 months, maybe even slightly older if its a very top end.
    bobmunro said:


    I would also mention a VW Touareg - does most things a Cayenne does (without the badge and the pace!) but significantly cheaper and bomb proof as far as reliability is concerned.

    Thats on the list too. We saw a lovely all black R-Design one on the A2 last week, beautful motor.

    Prestige are sharks, and generally their cars aren't great either. They are like a dealer from the 90's - anyone who charges an admin fee to buy a car from them I'd swerve as for their in-house warranty and service plan .....

    I'd try and decide what car you want first that fits budget and then go hunting, Q7 are good but big old beasts, be careful on the ULEZ coming in a few years time if you go past the south circular regularly, anything post 2016 should be Ok but worth checking (petrol earlier).

    Make a list of must haves and go from there.


  • Bloody hell, just been reading the reviews of Prestige, think we dodged a bullet there!
  • JohnBoyUK said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    JohnBoyUK said:

    @Rob7Lee are there any particular dealers you would recommend for high end motors? We're in the market for a high end SUV, like a Volvo XC90, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne or maybe even a Range. Also like the look of the Disco 4s.

    Probably easier to tell you where not to go! Give places like Prestige near Hewitts farm a miss.

    What sort of age? As that'll dictate where best.

    Under 3 years main dealers are a good place to start for this sort of vehicle, Range Rovers & Disco's can be very unreliable, not so much engine trouble but they are quite high end but they use low end parts. Parking brakes, transfer boxes air suspension pumps and the like regularly go and are a lot of cash to replace if no proper warranty.

    I'd highly recommend a Cayenne (does depend what one) but a lot of cash generally, I'd never run one without a Porsche Warranty which you can have added. All depends what you want from the car, I had a disco and it did a lot of things very well, a real cart horse, but slow as you like and drove me mad even with a remap and plenty of replacement parts over the 3 years I had it.


    Funny you should mention Prestige. We only live round the corner from there pretty much and we ended up there in the summer when the wife saw an ad in auto trader and took an Overfinch Range Autobiography and a Sport out for a spin. Nice motors but seeing them operate out of what can only be described as a farm yard felt a bit off putting. The wife pretty much made up her mind that we'd only look at main dealers after that.

    We're looking at pretty much anything between 12-36 months, maybe even slightly older if its a very top end.
    bobmunro said:


    I would also mention a VW Touareg - does most things a Cayenne does (without the badge and the pace!) but significantly cheaper and bomb proof as far as reliability is concerned.

    Thats on the list too. We saw a lovely all black R-Design one on the A2 last week, beautful motor.

    The new Touareg is very, very nice but still expensive used (c£50k). The outgoing model is pretty damn good as well. Less than 2 years old, less than 20k on the clock from a main dealer with all the protection of VW's used car scheme for about £25k. Have it two years and sell it for the thick end of £20k so all in about £5k or £200 a month for the car. Bit of a no-brainer really.
  • JohnBoyUK said:

    Bloody hell, just been reading the reviews of Prestige, think we dodged a bullet there!

    More than one, I suspect once in a while a decent car leaves there, but will be few and far between and it's not even as if they are cheap.

    I've probably bought and sold over 500 cars in the last 10 or so years and thought dealers like that died of death in the 90's. Every sales tactic this side of double glazing fro around that time. What is sad is it obviously still works enough for them to make a living at someone else's expense.
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  • So with the new emissions levels coming in.
    Meaning that you will be charged £12 to drive to The Valley in 3 years time, if you're car doesn't meet the criteria.
    Am I correct in assuming diesels are a no no and it's better to buy petrol ?
    (Electric being out until there's a better charging system in place).
  • I can’t get my head round leasing a car just to say that I have new car. I bought a car10 months old for £20k. Still a current model with a list price of £36k. When it’s 3 years old it will still have some value and will be in perfect condition, all paid for excluding the normal wear and tear items. If the body work is in good order I think it’s better to pay for a few new parts as and when required. Spare parts on run of the mill cars seldom cost thousands.
  • ''Glad that this has been resurrected.
    What happens when you hand back a car and it's got dents,
    scratches as most cars have after time?''

    If only minor dents or scratches can be classed as wear and tear.
  • This has just reminded me to cancel the coal man...
  • edited October 2018

    I can’t get my head round leasing a car just to say that I have new car. I bought a car10 months old for £20k. Still a current model with a list price of £36k. When it’s 3 years old it will still have some value and will be in perfect condition, all paid for excluding the normal wear and tear items. If the body work is in good order I think it’s better to pay for a few new parts as and when required. Spare parts on run of the mill cars seldom cost thousands.

    Some people don’t have £20k. But they do have £200 a month. I think the only ‘saving’ for me is the fact that after 3 years I trade in for a new one so no MOT or things going wrong with a car. Which may or may not happen, but for peace of mind, I’d rather not have to worry about it.

    I think this is all because of an anxiety I have. Had an old car for our first car which I shared with my brother. The car had a choke. It bunny hopped one day near Sidcup station on the way to college. It stopped by ‘Dillons’ in Sidcup and wouldn’t start again. I was so mortified by the whole experience, not knowing what to do. Mortified people were beeping. We left it there and jumped on the bus to get to college. I have major anxiety about it ever happening again. I lose my $hit driving if the petrol light goes on, I never go below 3/4 full, if I stall the car in traffic I start sweating and fear the car won’t start, if I inconvenience other drivers by picking the wrong lane at a junction. I’m sweating even writing this. I go past junctions sometimes and turn round and come back instead of making a late unannounced indication and turn. I know quite a lot about cars, can change wheels, oil and water basics etc (thanks to Bobby Snow at CAFC) but I think this is why I do what I do with regard to new cars.
  • Some people are just attracted to a nice, clean, shiny muffler
  • Fumbluff said:

    Some people are just attracted to a nice, clean, shiny muffler

    Aren't we all?
  • @Rob7Lee has spoken a lot of sense on this thread. I'm also of the mind that the best value to be had is on a nearly new (2 or 3 years old) car. You don't really get dogs of motors as you used to. One thing I'll say to anyone though is don't be robbed off by a main dealer service plan. Even if you are buying HP or PCP you don't have to have your legs smacked by the piss taking main dealer service prices. Go to a VAT registered mechanic you trust (ask me if you don't have one, I know a couple) and that takes care of the sevicing.

    Places like car giant and Big Motoring World have some insanely priced used cars and whilst I love window shopping on eBay and helping mates not get their pants pulled down at small dealers and with private sales I'd suggest people go there if you have at least 40% cash deposit.

    As far as leasing goes, I struggle to see the benefit unless someone else is paying and having the leased car won't negatively impact me in the way a company car would.
  • Carter said:

    @Rob7Lee has spoken a lot of sense on this thread. I'm also of the mind that the best value to be had is on a nearly new (2 or 3 years old) car. You don't really get dogs of motors as you used to. One thing I'll say to anyone though is don't be robbed off by a main dealer service plan. Even if you are buying HP or PCP you don't have to have your legs smacked by the piss taking main dealer service prices. Go to a VAT registered mechanic you trust (ask me if you don't have one, I know a couple) and that takes care of the sevicing.

    Places like car giant and Big Motoring World have some insanely priced used cars and whilst I love window shopping on eBay and helping mates not get their pants pulled down at small dealers and with private sales I'd suggest people go there if you have at least 40% cash deposit.

    As far as leasing goes, I struggle to see the benefit unless someone else is paying and having the leased car won't negatively impact me in the way a company car would.

    Who've been done at least twice for clocking cars.......

    So with the new emissions levels coming in.
    Meaning that you will be charged £12 to drive to The Valley in 3 years time, if you're car doesn't meet the criteria.
    Am I correct in assuming diesels are a no no and it's better to buy petrol ?
    (Electric being out until there's a better charging system in place).

    More recent diesels since 2015 pass, almost all Petrols do since 2005 and a lot before that, my 1998 Lotus Elise doesn't pass so would have to pay, but to be honest the way the engine's been added to it probably is high on emissions!
  • Leasing works depending your financial state. Cash of course is king but as has been said before not many people have 20k to buy a nearly new car.

    Leasing does take the hassle out of motoring. If you get the right deal you don't need to worry about Mot or servicing for 3 years.

    People worry too much about owning their car. Half the cars on the road are on PCP which is an even more expensive form of motoring. Most will never own the car as they won't pay the balloon payment and just chop it in for a new PCP.

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  • ChiAddick said:

    Leasing works depending your financial state. Cash of course is king but as has been said before not many people have 20k to buy a nearly new car.

    Leasing does take the hassle out of motoring. If you get the right deal you don't need to worry about Mot or servicing for 3 years.

    People worry too much about owning their car. Half the cars on the road are on PCP which is an even more expensive form of motoring. Most will never own the car as they won't pay the balloon payment and just chop it in for a new PCP.

    Last figure I saw stated that around 80% of people do not buy the car at the end of their PCP deal. Not sure on the breakdown of handing it back / trading it in though. For the same car, leasing would have been the cheaper option for those trading the car in. Maybe not every time, but I suspect 9 times out of 10.
  • cafcpolo said:

    ChiAddick said:

    Leasing works depending your financial state. Cash of course is king but as has been said before not many people have 20k to buy a nearly new car.

    Leasing does take the hassle out of motoring. If you get the right deal you don't need to worry about Mot or servicing for 3 years.

    People worry too much about owning their car. Half the cars on the road are on PCP which is an even more expensive form of motoring. Most will never own the car as they won't pay the balloon payment and just chop it in for a new PCP.

    Last figure I saw stated that around 80% of people do not buy the car at the end of their PCP deal. Not sure on the breakdown of handing it back / trading it in though. For the same car, leasing would have been the cheaper option for those trading the car in. Maybe not every time, but I suspect 9 times out of 10.
    Leasing is all about hassle free motoring if you do a fair number of miles. I average 20k a year and have always had PCP. I don't worry about repairs, MOT, servicing or minor dents as I take out all the insurances. In 28 months have made 8 claims for minor dinks, five tyres replaced after punctures/potholes and 4 alloy wheel refurbishments and two services. I know what my monthly budget is and I accept that's the price I pay for hassle free motoring, year in year out.

    The residual value on my car is likely to be less than the ballon payment, so I have also avoided the risk of an unknown level of depreciation, and the finance company takes the hit when I hand back the car. Having paid back more than 50% of the finance I could actually hand back my car now 8 months early with no penalty and get a replacement new car for the same monthly payment.

    The only financial equation in car purchase v leasing is around how much depreciation you are going to bear, that depends on if its new or used, and how you fund the depreciation. When you buy a car you pay for the depreciation up front. When you lease a car you pay for the depreciation monthly and haven't paid in advance up front for the metal that you can eventually sell on at a price that falls each month.

    As the monthly lease price is almost entirely based on the depreciation over three years, a higher quality car with higher residual value is cheaper than a lesser vehicle that loses more in depreciation. That's why so many leases are BMWs/Audi/VW etc.

    I make better use of £X thousand than buying a depreciating asset, I prefer just to pay for the depreciation and not the asset, so it's horses for courses, you can't generalise, the financial equation needs to take account of the soft benefits of leasing. Many deals are based on pretty low interest rates and that helps reduce the cost of the funding the depreciation.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Leasing can work for some, but I still view it as an expensive way to never own a car. What you do get is a new one but depends how important that is to you.

    I’m changing my car this weekend. I currently have a car that was £110k new with an option list that was frankly ridiculous. I paid 37k for it when it was 2.5 years old, and just sold it for £32.5k, total costs (I’ve had for 2.5 years) was £4.5k depreciation, £1400 warranty and £180 for a service (although that was refunded but that's another story).

    So all in excluding fuel and insurance is about 6k or a bit under £200 a month. And I’ve been driving the highest end/spec car I’ll probably ever own.

    Or for the same money I could have leased a Corsa or similar. I know what I prefer to spend time in.

    It is somewhat horses for courses, I don't do a lot of miles, maybe 7-8k per annum in this car, but I'd rather drive a high end second hand car than a lower end new one.

    As long as you buy right second hand, it'll always be better in my view aside form the odd crazy deal that is sometimes on offer when a manufacturer wants to get a new model out on the road quickly.

    You do of course need the money to do so In the first place, although loans are cheap money right now.

    I definitely don't need a new car, but I do want a decent SUV for the family that is more than i want to outlay with savings.

    Your commentary on the situation is almost exactly as it is going through my head, but i just can't come to a decision. With an asset that depreciates over time like cars do, i just can't see the value in owning one, necessarily. But on the same token, i've always seen 'renting' as chucking away money.

    got a personal loan for my last car, but did the numbers for this one and the repayments outstrip the lease cost by about 200 a month.

    PS. sounds like you got a pretty ridiculous deal on your car! What are you buying with the proceeds?
    Arriving Saturday is an Audi RS6, current car was a Cayenne 4.2 v8 that had only ever been sat in the drivers seat despite the owner from new specing nearly £6k worthy of options for the rear seat passengers. Still had the covers on the rear mats when I bought it! I did get a very good deal on it, basically I used to run a motor fleet of about 100 cars (that we bought, not leased!) so I got to know a lot of dealers.

    You should be able to buy an 18month-2 year old car of higher quality for the same as a lease on a new one over a 2-3 year period.

    Your monthly lease is basically paying for depreciation! You don't avoid it by leasing, far from it!

    What SUV's are you looking at?
    Mazda CX-5 and Discovery sport at the moment - but that's based on leasing them. Had a CX-5 before and I loved it, the spec you get for the price is unreal.

    I can afford to move up a class, and love the f-pace and Stelvio...but i'm not sure i want the price commitment at the moment, both possibly too new for a second hand purchase.

    I'm also trying to buy and sell a house so finance, while not tight, is under scrutiny.

    Didn't you fancy sticking with the Cayenne? I've never driven a RS Audi to be fair but that Porsche sounds like a machine!
    In a very similar situation.

    After an SUV and trying to figure out the best leasing suppliers or dealer direct or get a loan and buy 2nd hand.

    Had an eye on a Tiguan or GLC or XC60. Missus now likes the XC40.

    All of those appear to be £300+ a week with a deposit of £4k+

    CX-5 gets great reviews and can be had for around £275/pcm.

    So many websites out there all with varying costs. I presume once you trade it back in after 3/4 years you have to stump up another up front payment for a new car? So there's another 4k you need to find. Although the same applies if selling a 2nd hand car as depreciation will be included.
  • edited October 2018

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Leasing can work for some, but I still view it as an expensive way to never own a car. What you do get is a new one but depends how important that is to you.

    I’m changing my car this weekend. I currently have a car that was £110k new with an option list that was frankly ridiculous. I paid 37k for it when it was 2.5 years old, and just sold it for £32.5k, total costs (I’ve had for 2.5 years) was £4.5k depreciation, £1400 warranty and £180 for a service (although that was refunded but that's another story).

    So all in excluding fuel and insurance is about 6k or a bit under £200 a month. And I’ve been driving the highest end/spec car I’ll probably ever own.

    Or for the same money I could have leased a Corsa or similar. I know what I prefer to spend time in.

    It is somewhat horses for courses, I don't do a lot of miles, maybe 7-8k per annum in this car, but I'd rather drive a high end second hand car than a lower end new one.

    As long as you buy right second hand, it'll always be better in my view aside form the odd crazy deal that is sometimes on offer when a manufacturer wants to get a new model out on the road quickly.

    You do of course need the money to do so In the first place, although loans are cheap money right now.

    I definitely don't need a new car, but I do want a decent SUV for the family that is more than i want to outlay with savings.

    Your commentary on the situation is almost exactly as it is going through my head, but i just can't come to a decision. With an asset that depreciates over time like cars do, i just can't see the value in owning one, necessarily. But on the same token, i've always seen 'renting' as chucking away money.

    got a personal loan for my last car, but did the numbers for this one and the repayments outstrip the lease cost by about 200 a month.

    PS. sounds like you got a pretty ridiculous deal on your car! What are you buying with the proceeds?
    Arriving Saturday is an Audi RS6, current car was a Cayenne 4.2 v8 that had only ever been sat in the drivers seat despite the owner from new specing nearly £6k worthy of options for the rear seat passengers. Still had the covers on the rear mats when I bought it! I did get a very good deal on it, basically I used to run a motor fleet of about 100 cars (that we bought, not leased!) so I got to know a lot of dealers.

    You should be able to buy an 18month-2 year old car of higher quality for the same as a lease on a new one over a 2-3 year period.

    Your monthly lease is basically paying for depreciation! You don't avoid it by leasing, far from it!

    What SUV's are you looking at?
    Mazda CX-5 and Discovery sport at the moment - but that's based on leasing them. Had a CX-5 before and I loved it, the spec you get for the price is unreal.

    I can afford to move up a class, and love the f-pace and Stelvio...but i'm not sure i want the price commitment at the moment, both possibly too new for a second hand purchase.

    I'm also trying to buy and sell a house so finance, while not tight, is under scrutiny.

    Didn't you fancy sticking with the Cayenne? I've never driven a RS Audi to be fair but that Porsche sounds like a machine!
    In a very similar situation.

    After an SUV and trying to figure out the best leasing suppliers or dealer direct or get a loan and buy 2nd hand.

    Had an eye on a Tiguan or GLC or XC60. Missus now likes the XC40.

    All of those appear to be £300+ a week with a deposit of £4k+

    CX-5 gets great reviews and can be had for around £275/pcm.

    So many websites out there all with varying costs. I presume once you trade it back in after 3/4 years you have to stump up another up front payment for a new car? So there's another 4k you need to find. Although the same applies if selling a 2nd hand car as depreciation will be included.
    As above I can speak very highly for the Tiguan. I have a 2 litre petrol R line with all the toys. I believe there is about a six month waiting list if you are buying new but for all the reasons mentioned in previous threads look for nearly new. I saved 9k on my price for a five month old ex showroom model with under 3k miles from a main dealer (Beadles). It’s a new car in all but name. Quite heavy on petrol compared to my previous cars (Audi A5 diesel and A3 petrol) but space and comfort Is brilliant. I also have a dog and the boot converts brilliantly into a dog space with the dog bar extra which I got them to throw in free as part of the deal.

    PS. A golfing buddy has just bought a new XC40. It’s gorgeous but less roomy than the Tiguan.
  • https://www.car-finance.net/

    Worth a look if you are doing a personal lease. Some cracking deals on the site and they are happy to negotiate on the phone. My daughter & son in law are on their second car from them and I am in the process of looking at a few myself.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Leasing can work for some, but I still view it as an expensive way to never own a car. What you do get is a new one but depends how important that is to you.

    I’m changing my car this weekend. I currently have a car that was £110k new with an option list that was frankly ridiculous. I paid 37k for it when it was 2.5 years old, and just sold it for £32.5k, total costs (I’ve had for 2.5 years) was £4.5k depreciation, £1400 warranty and £180 for a service (although that was refunded but that's another story).

    So all in excluding fuel and insurance is about 6k or a bit under £200 a month. And I’ve been driving the highest end/spec car I’ll probably ever own.

    Or for the same money I could have leased a Corsa or similar. I know what I prefer to spend time in.

    It is somewhat horses for courses, I don't do a lot of miles, maybe 7-8k per annum in this car, but I'd rather drive a high end second hand car than a lower end new one.

    As long as you buy right second hand, it'll always be better in my view aside form the odd crazy deal that is sometimes on offer when a manufacturer wants to get a new model out on the road quickly.

    You do of course need the money to do so In the first place, although loans are cheap money right now.

    I definitely don't need a new car, but I do want a decent SUV for the family that is more than i want to outlay with savings.

    Your commentary on the situation is almost exactly as it is going through my head, but i just can't come to a decision. With an asset that depreciates over time like cars do, i just can't see the value in owning one, necessarily. But on the same token, i've always seen 'renting' as chucking away money.

    got a personal loan for my last car, but did the numbers for this one and the repayments outstrip the lease cost by about 200 a month.

    PS. sounds like you got a pretty ridiculous deal on your car! What are you buying with the proceeds?
    Arriving Saturday is an Audi RS6, current car was a Cayenne 4.2 v8 that had only ever been sat in the drivers seat despite the owner from new specing nearly £6k worthy of options for the rear seat passengers. Still had the covers on the rear mats when I bought it! I did get a very good deal on it, basically I used to run a motor fleet of about 100 cars (that we bought, not leased!) so I got to know a lot of dealers.

    You should be able to buy an 18month-2 year old car of higher quality for the same as a lease on a new one over a 2-3 year period.

    Your monthly lease is basically paying for depreciation! You don't avoid it by leasing, far from it!

    What SUV's are you looking at?
    Mazda CX-5 and Discovery sport at the moment - but that's based on leasing them. Had a CX-5 before and I loved it, the spec you get for the price is unreal.

    I can afford to move up a class, and love the f-pace and Stelvio...but i'm not sure i want the price commitment at the moment, both possibly too new for a second hand purchase.

    I'm also trying to buy and sell a house so finance, while not tight, is under scrutiny.

    Didn't you fancy sticking with the Cayenne? I've never driven a RS Audi to be fair but that Porsche sounds like a machine!
    In a very similar situation.

    After an SUV and trying to figure out the best leasing suppliers or dealer direct or get a loan and buy 2nd hand.

    Had an eye on a Tiguan or GLC or XC60. Missus now likes the XC40.

    All of those appear to be £300+ a week with a deposit of £4k+

    CX-5 gets great reviews and can be had for around £275/pcm.

    So many websites out there all with varying costs. I presume once you trade it back in after 3/4 years you have to stump up another up front payment for a new car? So there's another 4k you need to find. Although the same applies if selling a 2nd hand car as depreciation will be included.
    Buying used simply means there is less depreciation suffered.

    If you buy new rather than lease/PCP you don't avoid the same depreciation , but you pay for it in advance when you buy. If the loan rate is higher than the lease/PCP rate you are paying more for the depreciation by buying the car with a loan.

    if you buy a new car for £30k that is worth £15k after 3 years you have paid £15k for the car and £15k for the depreciation. After 3 years you own an asset worth £15k, reducing monthly with costs of maintenance.

    If you PCP at the same interest rate, you spread the cost of the depreciation over three years, same as a 3 year loan and you pay the same interest on the £15k asset as under a loan, but you do not pay for the £15k asset after 3 years unless you choose to. Under the loan you have repaid the £15k asset value over 3 years so own the asset whether you want to keep it or not. Instead of loaning £15k for the asset you could have taken out a PCP and saved up £15k over three years instead of paying the same amount to the bank. Both ways you pay interest on £30k for 3 years. The only difference is the choice of buying the asset after 3 years with capital you save over 3 years as opposed to deciding to own the asset in advance and paying capital for its residual value in advance.

    Unless you have the cash in the bank, and you avoid paying any interest to anyone, I don't think buying on a loan has a lot of attraction compared to PCP.

    The advance deposit is simply an advance of monthly payments and negotiable, and the more you pay the less are the repayments, so quotes make a top end assumption to display a lower monthly amount.

    The mileage you will do affects the monthly amount quoted, and different quotes for the same car reflect the annual mileage assumed, the rate of interest on the finance and the advance monthly payments. You need to get specific quotes on the same terms to get the best deal. The rate of interest on the finance has a big impact, as does the rate of depreciation assumed.

    The more the assumed depreciation the higher the monthly payment, so a low quoted rate to get your business might be based on an unrealistic residual value after 3 years and a ballon payment higher than the car will be worth. This ensures you hand over the car and take out another PCP rather than buy the car back.

    You sometimes get a contribution from the dealer and/or the manufacturer if you get a lease deal from a main franchise, so you need to get plenty of different quotes.

    Also be alert for quotes aimed at business users which are reduced to reflect the VAT relief able to be claimed.

    The dealer wants a sale at the highest price, the manufacturer wants a sale on his finance package, the lease brokers will look for the cheapest deal to get a sale, (he only earns a commission on making a sale). The finance companies want to undercut the manufacturers finance deals and the manufacturers undercut their own franchises to get a sale by any means. In theory a lease/PCP broker is able to play the various parties off to get the best deal, but they are out and out salesmen.

    It's the wild west out there.



  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Leasing can work for some, but I still view it as an expensive way to never own a car. What you do get is a new one but depends how important that is to you.

    I’m changing my car this weekend. I currently have a car that was £110k new with an option list that was frankly ridiculous. I paid 37k for it when it was 2.5 years old, and just sold it for £32.5k, total costs (I’ve had for 2.5 years) was £4.5k depreciation, £1400 warranty and £180 for a service (although that was refunded but that's another story).

    So all in excluding fuel and insurance is about 6k or a bit under £200 a month. And I’ve been driving the highest end/spec car I’ll probably ever own.

    Or for the same money I could have leased a Corsa or similar. I know what I prefer to spend time in.

    It is somewhat horses for courses, I don't do a lot of miles, maybe 7-8k per annum in this car, but I'd rather drive a high end second hand car than a lower end new one.

    As long as you buy right second hand, it'll always be better in my view aside form the odd crazy deal that is sometimes on offer when a manufacturer wants to get a new model out on the road quickly.

    You do of course need the money to do so In the first place, although loans are cheap money right now.

    I definitely don't need a new car, but I do want a decent SUV for the family that is more than i want to outlay with savings.

    Your commentary on the situation is almost exactly as it is going through my head, but i just can't come to a decision. With an asset that depreciates over time like cars do, i just can't see the value in owning one, necessarily. But on the same token, i've always seen 'renting' as chucking away money.

    got a personal loan for my last car, but did the numbers for this one and the repayments outstrip the lease cost by about 200 a month.

    PS. sounds like you got a pretty ridiculous deal on your car! What are you buying with the proceeds?
    Arriving Saturday is an Audi RS6, current car was a Cayenne 4.2 v8 that had only ever been sat in the drivers seat despite the owner from new specing nearly £6k worthy of options for the rear seat passengers. Still had the covers on the rear mats when I bought it! I did get a very good deal on it, basically I used to run a motor fleet of about 100 cars (that we bought, not leased!) so I got to know a lot of dealers.

    You should be able to buy an 18month-2 year old car of higher quality for the same as a lease on a new one over a 2-3 year period.

    Your monthly lease is basically paying for depreciation! You don't avoid it by leasing, far from it!

    What SUV's are you looking at?
    Mazda CX-5 and Discovery sport at the moment - but that's based on leasing them. Had a CX-5 before and I loved it, the spec you get for the price is unreal.

    I can afford to move up a class, and love the f-pace and Stelvio...but i'm not sure i want the price commitment at the moment, both possibly too new for a second hand purchase.

    I'm also trying to buy and sell a house so finance, while not tight, is under scrutiny.

    Didn't you fancy sticking with the Cayenne? I've never driven a RS Audi to be fair but that Porsche sounds like a machine!
    In a very similar situation.

    After an SUV and trying to figure out the best leasing suppliers or dealer direct or get a loan and buy 2nd hand.

    Had an eye on a Tiguan or GLC or XC60. Missus now likes the XC40.

    All of those appear to be £300+ a week with a deposit of £4k+

    CX-5 gets great reviews and can be had for around £275/pcm.

    So many websites out there all with varying costs. I presume once you trade it back in after 3/4 years you have to stump up another up front payment for a new car? So there's another 4k you need to find. Although the same applies if selling a 2nd hand car as depreciation will be included.


    It's the wild west out there.



    Some of the dealers i've seen the last month i'd definitely agree with that!
  • we needed a second car and have been looking for a while, looked at leasing a Toyota Aygo and then took the lease deal to a Toyota dealer and they basically matched it (but means we are buying the car)

    bloke said basically think of it like a mobile phone contract, we've bought on a 3 year deal with lump sum payment at the end, but they'll contact us every 18 months/2 years with an offer of an upgrade / new car etc.

    The Aygo was the smartest looking of all the real small cars we'd looked at + was £20 tax (although subsequently now found out that as of April next year that's going and all cars will be £140 road tax irrespective)
  • Was that mentioned in the budget?
  • Fella at the car dealership told me on Sunday about the tax changing
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