Totally agree with the booing comments as being utterly moronic. I'm passionate about being English but I won't deny another countryman the chance to be patriotic for their country either. I will never boo another national anthem. I also find GStQ stuffy and old fashioned and think as the English national football team should be played the English national athem - Land of Hope and Glory. Much better and much more patriotic when we win golds at the Commonwealth games.
As for another athem that raises the pulse - the way the Italians go about theirs is something else. A very Italian anthem (if that's not stating the bleedin obvious!)
I'm not convinced that it was such a popular myth. Between the 16th and 19th centuries the in growing and increasingly rich mercantile classes in England found that promoting patriotism was in their interests both politically and economically. What they needed was a set of shared myths to propogate to try and bind everyone in the country together. The Jesus to England myth fitted this need perfectly at a time when people were expected to go to church. Essentially it was a trick to make English people feel special; to make the working classes feel as if they had more in common with the ruling classes than they did with workers in other nations. I'm not saying that no-one believed he came here, but it wasn't (except perhaps for a couple of places in the west country) something that people passed on for themselves. It was part of an ideology that was quite deliberately propogated by a particular section of society to their own ends. Of course the same myth is still propogated today by the Glastonbury tourist board for their own insidious ends.
[cite]Posted By: Spankie As for another athem that raises the pulse - the way the Italians go about theirs is something else. A very Italian anthem (if that's not stating the bleedin obvious!)
Which is ironic really as they have only been a unified country for about 150 years.
I like the French one, I have a little french friend and always used to get him up to sing it when we were out drinking and singing songs. love it.
Always get a bit choked up during God Save the Queen but at the same time irritated at the lack of vocals from our national team.
And my other favourite is Amhrán na bhFiann. Always get dewey eyed. tho in ireland they play it at the end of every disco/dance and im normally cross eyed by then.
Jerusalem was originally written as a poem by William Blake and Henry is right, the music was added in 1916.
"According to my Vicar it was written by a confirmed madman and is about an invasion of England rather than the populist theory you put."
Blake believed in God but was a dissenter from the CofE and attacked conventional religion, but on the other hand he claimed to have seen visions throughout his life but I think he was creatively/harmlessly mad rather than drooling insane. He's buried at the Bunhill Fields cemetary in the City.
The poem/hymn is heavily allegorical and my belief is that Blake was an idealist/believer in utopia (he thought all men and races were equal, which was a revolutionary statement for his era) wanted and saw no reason why England shouldn't be made in to a utopian land. For that matter he was strongly pro-French revolution at a time when Britain was fighting the French revolutionary/Napoleonic wars.
Blake was mad or a genius or both Brunello. Never heard it said it was about an invasion other than other mills and factories invading the green and pleasant land. Then again I don't believe much that a vicar tells me anyway (I'm sure he's a lovely bloke and all that)
The poem has also been interpreted to be about sex (nor shall my SWORD sleep in my hand) which would be funny given the Woman's Institute sing it.
Danny, the Jesus in England myth goes back some time but you are right that such myths were and are used for political and social ends. But that has always been the case and is why most myths exist.
The purpose of myth is to explain the unexplained (creation myth) and/or to enforce moral or other teachings (all religious myths, the boy who cried wolf, Aesop's fables, the Greek Myths, The Green Man story (hence so many pubs named after him) which many people have linked to Jesus. Both die and are re-born.
What you say Danny is correct re the use of myths but that could be applied to God Save the Queen (she ain't no human being) and especially Land of Hope and Glory eg "God who made her mighty make her mightier yet" is clearly suggesting that Empire was God made.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Blake as mad or a genius or both Brunello. Never heard it said it was about an invasion other than other mills and factories invading the green and pleasant land. Then again I don't believe much that a vicar tells me anyway (I'm sure he's a lovely bloke and all that)
The poem has also been interpreted to be about sex (nor shall my SWORD sleep in my hand) which would be funny given the Woman's Institute sing it.
Danny, the Jesus in England myth goes back some time but you are right that such myths were and are used for political and social ends. But that has always been the case and is why most myths exist.
The purpose of myth is to explain the unexplained (creation myth) and/or to enforce moral or other teachings (all religious myths, the boy who cried wolf, Aesop's fables, the Greek Myth, The Green Man story (hence so many pubs named after him) which many people have linked to the Jesus. Both die and are re-born.
What you say Danny is correct re the use of myths but that could be applied to God Save the Queen (she ain't no human being) and especially Land of Hope and Glory eg "God who made her mighty make her mightier yet" is clearly suggesting that Empire was God made.
Bottom line is Jerusalem is a better song.
Are you BFR in disguissssseeee..Are you BFR in disguise?
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Blake as mad or a genius or both Brunello. Never heard it said it was about an invasion other than other mills and factories invading the green and pleasant land. Then again I don't believe much that a vicar tells me anyway (I'm sure he's a lovely bloke and all that)
The poem has also been interpreted to be about sex (nor shall my SWORD sleep in my hand) which would be funny given the Woman's Institute sing it.
Danny, the Jesus in England myth goes back some time but you are right that such myths were and are used for political and social ends. But that has always been the case and is why most myths exist.
The purpose of myth is to explain the unexplained (creation myth) and/or to enforce moral or other teachings (all religious myths, the boy who cried wolf, Aesop's fables, the Greek Myth, The Green Man story (hence so many pubs named after him) which many people have linked to the Jesus. Both die and are re-born.
What you say Danny is correct re the use of myths but that could be applied to God Save the Queen (she ain't no human being) and especially Land of Hope and Glory eg "God who made her mighty make her mightier yet" is clearly suggesting that Empire was God made.
Bottom line is Jerusalem is a better song.
Are you BFR in disguissssseeee..Are you BFR in disguise?
No. I know that you have a short attention span, having gone to that crappy school of yours, which is why you like Bowie and don't like the Simpsons but read on. You might learn something.
I even put in nice short para's so you could give your brain a rest after each new concept.
I wonder how many people on here actually sing our National Anthem when England play, I know I do Loud & Proud, pretty sure Plastics like Rothko don't though :-)
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]I wonder how many people on here actually sing our National Anthem when England play, I know I do Loud & Proud, pretty sure Plastics like Rothko don't though :-)
"I really like the Star Spangled banner, if sung well."
You have to give it to the Yanks, they sing this at every opportunity. Every sporting or cultural event, although there is one of those factoid's that only about 5% of the population actually know the words.
[cite]Posted By: ChicagoAddick[/cite]"I really like the Star Spangled banner, if sung well."
You have to give it to the Yanks, they sing this at every opportunity. Every sporting or cultural event, although there is one of those factoid's that only about 5% of the population actually know the words.
A bit slow for me that one. I'd have thought with JP Sousa on the team they could have come up with something far more interesting. I'd go for Stars & Stripes Forever if I was a Yank.
Excellent lyrics Henry, God Save The Queen will be bellowed out by me whenever the need arises, I think it was euro 2000? Jerusalem was what Keith Allen did as his bit stating that every Englishman should know the lyrics.
A couple of years ago I DJ'ed a St.Georges night and played Jerusalem at the end was truly amazed by half the pub (Henrys age down to 25) singing it with gusto and the other half looking like most the England national side when god saves the quuen is played before an international.
For a welshman that guy has done his bit for English patriotism, also as much as I see the pride other countries take in their own anthems I cannot appreciate another nations anthem. Sorry.
Oh the frenchman went to the toooooiiiiiiilet..............
Comments
According to my Vicar it was written by a confirmed madman and is about an invasion of England rather than the populist theory you put.
Before you harangue me that is not necessarily my view but I can see his point.
As for another athem that raises the pulse - the way the Italians go about theirs is something else. A very Italian anthem (if that's not stating the bleedin obvious!)
Which is ironic really as they have only been a unified country for about 150 years.
Always get a bit choked up during God Save the Queen but at the same time irritated at the lack of vocals from our national team.
And my other favourite is Amhrán na bhFiann. Always get dewey eyed. tho in ireland they play it at the end of every disco/dance and im normally cross eyed by then.
"According to my Vicar it was written by a confirmed madman and is about an invasion of England rather than the populist theory you put."
Blake believed in God but was a dissenter from the CofE and attacked conventional religion, but on the other hand he claimed to have seen visions throughout his life but I think he was creatively/harmlessly mad rather than drooling insane. He's buried at the Bunhill Fields cemetary in the City.
The poem/hymn is heavily allegorical and my belief is that Blake was an idealist/believer in utopia (he thought all men and races were equal, which was a revolutionary statement for his era) wanted and saw no reason why England shouldn't be made in to a utopian land. For that matter he was strongly pro-French revolution at a time when Britain was fighting the French revolutionary/Napoleonic wars.
The poem has also been interpreted to be about sex (nor shall my SWORD sleep in my hand) which would be funny given the Woman's Institute sing it.
Danny, the Jesus in England myth goes back some time but you are right that such myths were and are used for political and social ends. But that has always been the case and is why most myths exist.
The purpose of myth is to explain the unexplained (creation myth) and/or to enforce moral or other teachings (all religious myths, the boy who cried wolf, Aesop's fables, the Greek Myths, The Green Man story (hence so many pubs named after him) which many people have linked to Jesus. Both die and are re-born.
What you say Danny is correct re the use of myths but that could be applied to God Save the Queen (she ain't no human being) and especially Land of Hope and Glory eg "God who made her mighty make her mightier yet" is clearly suggesting that Empire was God made.
Bottom line is Jerusalem is a better song.
Are you BFR in disguissssseeee..Are you BFR in disguise?
A proud republican song for a proud republican nation. Shame about their football team.
No. I know that you have a short attention span, having gone to that crappy school of yours, which is why you like Bowie and don't like the Simpsons but read on. You might learn something.
I even put in nice short para's so you could give your brain a rest after each new concept.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk69e1Vcmvg
Apart from it sounding like a dirge.
All the verses, or just the first one?
It's a Ntional Anthem for God's sake - what the fcuk do you people want, "The sun has got it's hat on"???
That would be more inspiring than God Save the Queen and more lyrically interesting...
That probably says more about you than it though.
Jeez, what's with everyone today. Why all the moaning and bad karma?
You have to give it to the Yanks, they sing this at every opportunity. Every sporting or cultural event, although there is one of those factoid's that only about 5% of the population actually know the words.
A bit slow for me that one. I'd have thought with JP Sousa on the team they could have come up with something far more interesting. I'd go for Stars & Stripes Forever if I was a Yank.
A couple of years ago I DJ'ed a St.Georges night and played Jerusalem at the end was truly amazed by half the pub (Henrys age down to 25) singing it with gusto and the other half looking like most the England national side when god saves the quuen is played before an international.
For a welshman that guy has done his bit for English patriotism, also as much as I see the pride other countries take in their own anthems I cannot appreciate another nations anthem. Sorry.
Oh the frenchman went to the toooooiiiiiiilet..............