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The TV Viewer's view

Living as I do in a place where you end up having an argument with the bar-staff these days just to get to see Charlton play, I thought I would add my two-tuppance worth, because the views about certain players on here seem well wide of the mark.
I've just watched the two games in a row (for the first time since coming home for Christmas) so I can now form some kind of opinion about this Charlton team and my ideas seem a bit different from a lot of others on this forum. Is it because I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about or that those of you who are going to more games can't see the woods for the trees?

In both the games against West Brom and Wolves I've seen some promising signs and also a few things that seem most obviously wrong. My main point is that the players seem to be trying and look determined to win. If they don't win it's simply because they aren't good enough or that they just don't know each other's strengths yet.

Regarding the players. Firstly, and to my great surprise, Jerome Thomas not only has looked good but seems to be trying. The problem is that we insist on playing him on the left when he is overly right footed. This means he is constantly leaving the ball wide open to the opposition's right back. He never gets past his man to cross it in from the bye-line and so always has to cut in and put in one of those easy to defend looping crosses. One exception was our first goal yesterday. The first thing to do therefore is get him on the right regardless of who else has to be deplaced in the team. He can be a real threat in this league and yet we are wasting him.

Secondly, I think individually that these loan players are alright. Halford looks a decent player and again looks to be putting in a lot of effort. That goal yesterday was outstanding. Cook looked pretty tricky and lively. Lita did a lot of running but is quite clearly out of form. We all know he's a good player, Coppell knows he's a good player but it's understandable why he's loaned him out: he's just not doing what he's capable of. That doesn't mean he's not trying either.

McCarthy is a real Charlton defender if ever I saw one: hard-working, committed and concentrating on winning everything (reminds me of Balmer). He got turned inside out by Banks-Blake (if that's his name) but who wouldn't? That player was a forward fit for the Premiership (like Phillips last week). Ultimately we've got outdone by two class finishes in two consecutive games and we're not at the same level as yet.

Samedo for me is the weak-link. Expecting promotion with him and Holland in the middle is laughable. I really like Matt Holland - he really cares and wants to win but isn't good enough. He deserves his place perhaps due to leadership skills (and lack of anyone better) but Samedo is unlikely to be better than one of our youth team players. Please bear in mind that I realise I may be wide of the mark with some of these assertions but I'm just going by the two games I've seen recently

Overall we just don't have players good enough to get promotion. Some individuals could play in a promotion winning team (4 or 5 of them) but that's all, and probably wouldn't be good enough for The Premiership. That said, we are watching a bunch of players who don't know each other and are low on confidence.

They are low on confidence due to both poor results and playing in front of a stadium of people booing and groaning all the time. Enough said about this on other threads. They don't know each other due in part to a large recruitment drive after the twats who 'played' for us last season buggered off (to Wigan, Cardiff, Portsmouth etc), and in part to Pards who seems to have been rolling the dice too often (at least he's admitted it though).

So where does this leave us and why am I writing this in the first place? Well, I for one feel a bit bewildered by it all. Not by our level of play - that I expected. Look next year at Bolton and Fulham if/when they come down. They'll lose a lot of playing staff and will be like us. Derby may keep theirs in place and be OK. I feel bewildered by the over-expectation and the reaction to these bad results. When did we suddenly become this club that is too big to lose; like the Tottenham of The Championship? Why are we slagging off the players we have this season -personally I boo those arseholes from last season who keep popping up for other teams in the lower reaches of the Premiership on MOTD.

So, we've spent quite a lot of money, perhaps wasted money but only time will really tell. The biggest mistake now would be to get rid of Pardew. Can anyone really challenge my belief that you need to back your manager even when he looks like he's made some mistakes? Even Ferguson got stick when he started at Manchester United. Steve Gibson sticks with Gareth Southgate. Look at the managers of the top two in our league now. Then look at the clubs that sack / lost their managers: Derby, Bolton, Fulham. I wanted Curbs out and maybe I was wrong to. One thing's for sure: we need to just be patient - the fans and the board. Getting rid of Pardew and criticising the players (especially when they ARE doing their best) won't get us anywhere.
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Comments

  • Agreed 100%
  • edited March 2008
    Spot on especially with Semedo i honestly think he had his best game for us a right back at the start of the season he gets caught with the ball and gives it away far to easily in very dangerous positions.

    We need hungry players but the way the fans are performing Pards wouldnt risk any youngsters coming in as some of the shite at our ground would boo them as well
  • Have to agree with just about everything that you said, except Thomas who has looked great the last two games! Shame he can"t put the same display of his obvious talent on when the camera's are not there.
  • And how many times has Semedo been subbed to be saved from being sent off?

    I like Semedo but on Saturday he never stopped giving the ball away or passing it to no-one in particular.
  • how he got away with the headbutt is beyond me...
  • Spot on Jimmy; well said. Agree totally about Halford. He is a decent player who will come good if the morons in the crowd would only get off his back. Central midfield is our major problem & will continue to be so until we find somebody to fill the Bowyer/Parker type role. These players are hard to find, however, & everybody else is also looking for one. Semedo needs time to settle in & for his game to develop naturally. He has looked good at time this season but has also looked poor at other times. If Pards can just sort out the midfield then I think we will have a good chance next season.
  • edited March 2008
    shows how different things are when you watch on tv. semedo had a bad game but is quality. Holland always looks good but produces nothing in the way of chances created or shots on target. Halford is poor.

    but i agree, even though i think he is not quite the full shilling in footballing terms, pards should be retained. There are possibly dozens of better candidates but he is in the seat now and a change would only bring another period of uncertainty. he is a poor manager but he is Charlton's manager so we should get behind him
  • Great post Jimmy. Do not agree with everything you've learnt based on two games, but a good well-reasoned and structured post, where ultimately, the bottom line at the end is 100% correct.
  • One thing's for sure: we need to just be patient - the fans and the board. Getting rid of Pardew and criticising the players (especially when they ARE doing their best) won't get us anywhere.

    ...........

    My thoughts exactly, a successful team takes time to evolve. I suspect a lot of fans have seen the past few years of prem football and now we are a division below expect us to walk away with promotion, if not the league itself (bearing in mind that this happened last time we were relegated). Some teams do bounce back, but the number of personnel changes and the revolving doors means that we have lost a lot of players of premiership quality, but have mostly replaced them with either CCC players who have stepped up a division (Varney, McLeod etc) or those who have moved sideways - (McCarthy, Iwelumo) and have added a couple of cheap foreign imports.

    That said it is the job of the manager to select a team that can gel cohesively on the pitch and Pardew has had difficulty trying to find his best starting eleven - that stats on the numbers of players that he's used indicate that he is either impatient, unsure in himself or perhaps unsure in the quality of the players at his disposal.

    Reading the comments from those who've gone to matches, plus what I've seen what I think we lack is a strong Kinsella/Parker type player in central midfield. Semedo looks ok as a defensive midfielder, but he needs some action around him, players running into position, looking for the ball when he has it etc, while Matty Holland is a fine player but doesn't really give us that cutting edge we need going forward. If we could find a dominat midfielder to boss the centre of the park a bit more then I think we'd see the undoubted skills of our attacking midfield/forward line brought into play a little more effectively and all it takes is the creation of a few more chances a game with one or two being converted to turn a defeat into a draw and a draw into a win.
  • spot on apart from Halford I don't rate the bloke but on the other hand I don't get on his back during a game - thought he was poor against wolves but decent agaisnt WBA.
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  • Bang on, Jimmy. Seeing the game on telly often shows a completely different perspective to a match seen live.

    You don't get caught up in the same way with the emotion of the game which can easily distort your recollection.
    TV also gives a closer view of incidents and player performance on the ball, and of course with the benefit of action replay.

    Also, it would be interesting to hear the view of non-Charlton/Wolves people who watched the game with a neutral point of view.
  • actually paying to watch it affects your perspective on it as well. I doubt I'd be as miffed if I were in a pub watching it for free.
  • Its interesting, Ive tried to keep my negative posts of here(not that this was a negative post Jim) cause I feel to vent when everyone else seems to be doing it so well for me, is not productive....

    I think, having the exact same two games to judge as Jimmy, that semedo is a dangerous link, in the kishishev moments he has when he gives the ball away dangerously, that would be punished, again and again in the prem, and his temprement seems suspect to(he tried to headbutt some blokes teeth back into his nose against wolves, and was close to walking against west brom an all) ..... we have good spells....

    Actually Jimmy Id pretty much agree with all youve said there ....
  • He doesn't tackle, he doesn't score goals, he doesn't boss the midfield so can someone please tell me what Matt Holland actually does for the team?

    No doubt this will bring out the usuall comments about his exemplary attitude and passion and that he covers every blade of grass and I'll accept that he had a few good games earlier in the season but recently he seems to have reverted to the same ineffective player he has been for the majority of games for us.

    This isn't a wind up, I would really like someone to explain what it is that he brings to side that is so important that couldn't be done better by someone else.

    (prepares himself for a virtual stoneing for the heinous crime of critercising St Matt)
  • **throws a virtual stone at Barn Door Lisbie and then runs away**
  • Well, I shall dare to add a few more of my thoughts as I had expected to be shouted down with cries of 'You're joking - Halford's shit' or 'Samedo is quality - you haven't seen him play enough' or suchlike. Someone said that Samedo was good at right back. Fine. Let's play him there even if it means dropping Halford who I personally like. This is just the problem. It seems that, as with England, that we are trying to play all of our 'best' players regardless of position. It doesn't work like that of course. We also need to stop talking about buying new players. Just how many do we need? Surley we can find solutions with what we've got.

    Football is a simple game and I believe we have the players to do a simple job. I'm going to keep on about Thomas here. Play him on the right of midfield for heaven's sake. He can beat the left backs of this league and get to the byeline and put good dangerous crosses into the box.
    This is where Iwelumo comes in. A player with many weaknesses but one obvious strength. Balls whipped in hard into the box onto his head and bingo - goals. I bet that of ten decent balls from Thomas onto his head and he'll score a goal. Just look at the goals that he scored earlier in the season. Look also at the way Leaburn was transformed in 91/92 season.

    The centre of midfield is the hardest area to solve but let's make the most of what we've got. We need someone to be inventive and plays balls forward on the floor to our other centre forward. Andy Reid has gone so we have to forget about him. Surely Ambrose can do a job here: some little runs and balls from him to Lita and that will give opposition defenses something else to worry about. Then we need our other central midfielder to stay back a bit. Holland can do this, get in tackles and direct the others around him. OK, I too would like someone else but we've spent enough money and so the only other solution is to put in Harry Arter (don't know enough about him) or someone.

    Varney can handily be used as a replacement for either Thomas or Lita in the roles I have defined above. I don't have all the answers but I believe that this is a good start.

    If we can just get people playing in clear defined roles with a specific job to do I think we'll start making good chances and scoring goals. At the moment no-one seems to know what they are supposed to be doing. They are trying hard to do something but are all playing as though they've been training at 11 different clubs.

    As for the defense I think we've got a solid base for this league. If we sort out our midfield and attack I think that the defense will take care of itself.
  • edited March 2008
    Good points, Jimmy ..... but still doesn't address the lack of physical dominance in centre mid.

    Ambrose & Holland together ....... neat and tidy but so lightweight.
    And too passive.
  • Agree, Oggy. It's the one area where we really do need reinforcing - whether from within or without!

    Otherwise can't argue with most of what Jimmy M has said...
  • We need scott parker.... oh S%^&!!!
  • In defence of Semedo, he was doing an excellent job in the holding role at the start of the season. Matt Holland was fit and bang, Holland's in, Semedo was out. Personally I think that was wrong.

    You point about having specific jobs is spot on which is why I raised the question of what Holland's is meant to be. The problem with playing Holland with someone like ZZ is that neither knows what the other is doing. The Preston game was a prime example as you had both trying to do the same thing.

    Semedo may not have been great in the last couple of games but I think that he gives better balance to the team. You know what his job is, he will sit in front of the back 4 and give them protection. This gives licence for a ZZ or an Ambrose to support the strikers, knowing that there is someone behind them. I don't think that they have that sort of confedence with Holland in the side.

    Just my opinion.
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  • It's nice to read a post with actual constructive criticism rather than just slagging off the team or the board.
  • edited March 2008
    An excellent analysis from those two games Jimmy much (but not all imo) is spot on.

    Semedo was excellent earlier in the season but was dropped when Matty returned to fitness. I personally would have kept Semedo in but in fairness Matty has done as well as anybody else on the whole so I don't think Pardew can be criticised too much for that decision.

    I think Semedo's lack of match time has meant his passing has been a bit off in the games you've seen as he didn't give the ball away as much when playing regularly earlier in the season. To give him credit though, despite having a 'mare especially in the first half, he didn't hide unlike others in the team do from time to time, and still got involved. He does seem to have occasional disciplinary problems but overall I think he is one of Pardew's signings who has been and will continue to be decent.

    Like you I'm still in the "Pards In" camp but his public pronouncements do annoy me. Having said that I think he probably was justified in referring to the negativity of the fans after Saturday. I got thoroughly pi**** off with it so I can see that he would.
  • Len, please expand - what does Matty Holland do well?
  • edited March 2008
    [cite]Posted By: Addickson's God[/cite]Len, please expand - what does Matty Holland do well?

    He has shown leadership perhaps best exemplified by the two tackles he made in the first 10 minutes or so of the stoke home game which put down a marker of intent.

    I'm not particularly a Holland fan. As most regulars on here know I'd always have picked Kish above him for example when we had them both and as I said above I would have persevered with Semedo as he hadn't done anything wrong.

    However credit where credit is due. Holland hasn't hidden this season during matches which he did in the Prem at times and is obviously fully committed to the cause. In a team of virtual strangers those qualities are not to be under estimated.
  • [cite]Posted By: Barn Door Lisbie[/cite]In defence of Semedo, he was doing an excellent job in the holding role at the start of the season. Matt Holland was fit and bang, Holland's in, Semedo was out. Personally I think that was wrong.

    You point about having specific jobs is spot on which is why I raised the question of what Holland's is meant to be. The problem with playing Holland with someone like ZZ is that neither knows what the other is doing. The Preston game was a prime example as you had both trying to do the same thing.

    Semedo may not have been great in the last couple of games but I think that he gives better balance to the team. You know what his job is, he will sit in front of the back 4 and give them protection. This gives licence for a ZZ or an Ambrose to support the strikers, knowing that there is someone behind them. I don't think that they have that sort of confedence with Holland in the side.

    Just my opinion.

    I find myself agreeing with you again. Holland and Semedo can't play together. Play Semedo and you know he will do the dirty work without a similar type player getting in his way which also allows either a ZZ or Ambrose type to push forward knowing he's there protecting the back four.
  • I think Holland is the best defensive central midfielder we have.

    Unfortunately the manager thought on Saturday that Holland was Steven Gerrard and could play just behind the front two and leave a bloody big gap for Wolves to use.

    Not a fan of Semedo and I would hope that Pards drops him after the butt on Saturday, bloke has a screw loose.

    90% of me thinks that this is a 2 year plan and that Pardew is ok and should be given time to turn things round, 10% of me thinks the bloke is another Keegan (tactics wise) and Paul Ince could do for us what Keane did for Sunderland.

    Time for a bit of solidarity all round though. We are a totally different club to what we were 5 years ago when we were at our peak and 20 years ago when we were at our lowest. Time to stop going on about the past, be it the Selhurst days or the good old days not so long ago. Potentially The Valley should be a fortress with the support we get, potentially.
  • [cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]
    Time for a bit of solidarity all round though. We are a totally different club to what we were 5 years ago when we were at our peak and 20 years ago when we were at our lowest. Time to stop going on about the past, be it the Selhurst days or the good old days not so long ago. Potentially The Valley should be a fortress with the support we get, potentially.

    fully agree, well said.
  • lets see next season coz without promotional season ticket offers we will be back 15k crowds.
  • [cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]I think Holland is the best defensive central midfielder we have.

    Time for a bit of solidarity all round though. We are a totally different club to what we were 5 years ago when we were at our peak and 20 years ago when we were at our lowest. Time to stop going on about the past, be it the Selhurst days or the good old days not so long ago. Potentially The Valley should be a fortress with the support we get, potentially.

    I think you're having a laugh with that first bit, but the last bit is spot on.
  • edited March 2008
    'However credit where credit is due. Holland hasn't hidden this season during matches which he did in the Prem at times and is obviously fully committed to the cause. In a team of virtual strangers those qualities are not to be under estimated.'

    I disagree, when we have the ball going forward and are looking to manouvre the ball into the front two, Holland is rarely available for a pass, he's stood by a marker. When defence has the ball, he never looks to receive and turn, merely gives it back from wence it came.
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Roland Out!